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Does God Still Love Prodigals…Even Homosexuals?

Posted by truthtalklive on October 9, 2008

Our guest host Dr. Alex Mcfarland interviews two great guests.  Dr. Frank Turek, creator of a DVD series  “The Case Against Same Sex Marriage Without Using the Bible” .And Rob Parsons,  author of “Bringing home the Prodigals.”   We look foward to your comments!

AFTER THE SHOW CHECK OUT THE PODCAST!

BUY THE “BRINGING HOME THE PRODIGALS” Book

                                                      

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55 Responses to “Does God Still Love Prodigals…Even Homosexuals?”

  1. Maz said

    I’m watching a programme on the Christian Channel on TV, Genesis, and they are discussing homosexuality. They have two guests, one lady who is ‘for’ and a minister ‘against’. The ladies explanations for what the scriptures say is really so unconvincing, she is trying to twist it into what she wants it to mean rather than what it actually says. She is even trying to say that David and Jonathan, in the OT, had some kind of homosexual relationship. That is blasphemous.

  2. Maz said

    God loves the whole world, and Jesus died for the whole world, and the whole world can receive forgiveness if they just ask for it. That includes prodigals and homosexuals. But He hates their sin.

  3. Kasha said

    Divorce is destroying marriage more than homosexuality ever will. Honestly, with a 50% divorce rate in this country (and the rate is the same for evangelicals as non-evangelicals) I’m surprised homosexuals even WANT to get married. God forgives divorced people, and we let them go to church, even though Jesus specifically condemned divorce. Divorce has been shown to have a negative impact on children. I think we would be a lot better served by focusing more on the problem of divorce if we really want marriage to be what God meant it to be.

    So yes, I think God forgives homosexuals. They are sinners just like the rest of us.

  4. johnny said

    “I’m watching a programme on the Christian Channel on TV, Genesis, and they are discussing homosexuality. They have two guests, one lady who is ‘for’ and a minister ‘against’. The ladies explanations for what the scriptures say is really so unconvincing, she is trying to twist it into what she wants it to mean rather than what it actually says. She is even trying to say that David and Jonathan, in the OT, had some kind of homosexual relationship. That is blasphemous.”

    I recently ran across an article on the internet from a church that teaches that about David and Jonathan, but it gets worse than that, they go on to suggest the same about Paul, John and even Jesus. It honestly makes me want to cry.

  5. Maz said

    Johnny: Me too! Makes me feel sick and angry.

  6. Maz said

    Kasha: Both homosexuality and divorce ruin family life, no sin is greater than another I agree, but homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord. Divorced is allowed ”because of the hardness of your hearts” Jesus said. But He would NEVER allow homosexuality.

    I am divorced. I couldn’t live with my alcaholic husband anymore….I told him to go one day in desperation and he left. I tried for 20 years, most of which was close to hell, but it was too much for me to bear. I left it three years when we were separated before going for divorce because I STILL had hope that God would step in and he would be saved. And I had a Pastor then that told me it would be OK to meet a nice Christian man and get married again. Since then I have remained single. I believe remarriage is out of the question as the Bible clearly teaches that it would be adultery. I am content to be on my own now anyway, although I would have loved to have had a real loving relationship and happy marriage.

  7. Kash said

    Maz,
    I feel for you. I also am divorced. He left, and although I tried to reconcile with him for two years, he just didn’t want to be married anymore (there was another women, several probably). Thank goodness we hadn’t had children yet. I am remarried, but because I take the Bible literally I know that in Jesus’ eyes I am an adulteress. Luckily I know that Jesus forgives, and understands the human weakness that leads to sin. That is why I am eager to forgive others and let them know about the love of Jesus.

    My prayer is for you is a loving Christian relationship. You seem like a wonderful and Godly woman, and any Christian man would be lucky to have you.

  8. F. L. A. said

    Maz, would you please elaborate on how you believe homosexuality ruins “family life”, aside from not propagating the human species?

  9. Maz said

    F.L.A: What about the children? Family life is about children. How can you bring up children in a two fathers or a two mothers ‘family’. The family was created by God to be balanced, one father, one mother. And you can’t have children without these two people (funnily enough).
    And I heard of an interesting thing the other day, that if homosexuality is genetic, how can they pass on the homosexual gene? Even counting some homosexuals that marry and have children, surely they would die out in time?

  10. Maz said

    Kash: But then I would be an adulteress too. And although I could ask for forgiveness I would be going against Gods Word willingly and knowingly. I pray God will keep me from making that mistake…..that sin.

  11. F. L. A. said

    Maz, have you ever seriously considered that humans may actually be a bi-sexual species naturally, and that many just tend to go further “one way or the other” with their sexuality?
    Children who grow up with homosexual parents have no more of a chance at becoming “messed up” as those raised with a man and a woman as parents.

  12. Maz said

    F.L.A: If mankind goes any other way than Gods way they will end up messed up. Look what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah. The children died too…..because they were brought up just like their parents.

  13. Stanley said

    Rob Parsons is adorable. I love listening to him talk.

  14. Kash said

    The latest census showed that 39% of same sex couples between 25 and 55 years of age have children. They are usually the biological children of the parents from a previous marriage or relationship, but same sex couples also adopt (and often adopt special needs children). So whether you are for or against same sex marriage, the fact of the matter is that they do have children.

  15. Maz said

    Kash: Doesn’t this sound weird to you? Same sex couples have to have had a straight relationship before, to have children. Or they adopt a straight couples children, for whatever reason. One way or the other, God teaches us that we should have one relationship within marriage. ”A man shall leave his FATHER AND MOTHER and cleave to his WIFE, and the two shall become ONE FLESH, therefore, what God has joined together let no man put asunder.” KJV.

  16. F. L. A. said

    And if your child disrespects you by talking back you can murder them.
    Would this not almost eliminate the entire teenage generation?
    I could provide you with a long list of serial killers that were raised within strongly religious Christian households with a father and a mother as parents.
    Can you not think of a better, more modern example than the incident at Sodom and Gamorrah Maz? An example that a modern non-Christian might care about?

  17. Maz said

    F.L.A: Would it make any difference? I have to go now, will be back later.

  18. John said

    If you mean a more modern example, as a skeptic, I believe that it would indeed make a difference, Maz.
    A LONG time has passed, and we are in a different part of the world than the area of Sodom and Gamorrah[why does this word come up as being misspelled? Stupid computer.]. We need something more modern that we can relate to easier.

  19. A said

    The answer to the original question is YES !!! Look at Luke 15 and tell me whether the lost object (son, sheep, or coin) was loved by the owner. This is true even before the lost was found. This is an example of God’s unconditional love. The model is that our love is without condition either.

  20. Maz said

    John: Can you think of a city in America that appears to be the centre of homosexual activity and that has suffered cataclysmic trouble? And I’m not talking about New York, though one wonders why the twin towers got hit, not once but twice. Why do these things happen? Why the floods, the Tsunamis? Jesus prophesied that these things would increase in the last days, is it because of sin? America is distancing itself from God and His Word, prayer, anything Christian is slowly being thrown out by laws. And they are allowing foreign gods, foreign religions to come in freely and practice THEIR religion. What is going on?

  21. Kash said

    Maz, I can only assume you mean New Orleans. Hardly the “Center of homosexual activity”. And to say that hurricanes are God’s way of taking out homosexuals makes God look pretty mean, since he takes out alot of straight people too. Seriously, if God wanted to kill all homosexuals, He would, and with a bit more precision, I suspect.

    Read Genesis Chapter 9. Sodom and Gomorrah had more going on than just homosexual activity. They wanted to gang rape some angels. Lot (the supposed righteous one in the story!) offers his daughters instead! Not exactly an unambiguous morality story. Note that no one comes off looking good. Take THAT to heart instead of pointing fingers.

    Maz writes:
    “Kash: Doesn’t this sound weird to you? Same sex couples have to have had a straight relationship before, to have children. Or they adopt a straight couples children, for whatever reason. One way or the other, God teaches us that we should have one relationship within marriage. ”A man shall leave his FATHER AND MOTHER and cleave to his WIFE, and the two shall become ONE FLESH, therefore, what God has joined together let no man put asunder.” KJV.

    My point is that homosexual couples are just like heterosexual couples when it comes to marriage and children. Neither live up to the ideal of God in reality, so I don’t understand why heterosexual Christians are trying to scapegoat the very small homosexual population for their (heterosexual) marriage and family problems.

    And just to throw this out to everyone: I have heard some Christians argue that Rome fell because of homosexuals. Umm…Rome fell because of internal government corruption and greed and the impossibility of maintaining military control of the world without rotting from the inside out. Sound familiar to anyone else?

    Also, if voting in a anti-abortion, anti-gay president was all we had to do to earn God’s blessing, why have the last 8 years seen the following “judgements”: 9/11, failure to finish the job in Afghanistan, the debaucle of Iraq, Katrina, Ivan, etc, the crashing economy.

    Also, terrible calamities befall nations all the time. Think of the earthquake in China, mudslides in South America, etc, or all of the nations who suffer terrorist attacks on a daily basis. Are those judgements, or is the United States the only country God takes the time to judge through natural disasters and/or terrorist attacks?

    We tend to forget in the US that God is the God of the entire world. THe United States is not some sort of chosen people like ancient Israel. The death and resurrection of Jesus brought chosen people status to all nations, through belief in Jesus Christ. The US has enjoyed incredible properity and freedom, because our founding fathers were both Godly AND smart. Among many Christians currently the words “intellectual” or “intelligensia” are insults. If you don’t think that Washington, Madison, Hamilton, Adams, Jefferson, and the many others who founded this great country were intellectuals or members of the intelligensia, you are reading some seriously revisionist history books. God has blessed this nation the same way He has blessed all nations: by offerring His son. For the past 250 years we have honored that blessing by working hard and trying to stand for equality and liberty, with varying success but overall doing it arguably better than any other nation. We have not been blessed because we have been against abortion and homosexuality more than any other nation (Iran is pretty negative on both, for example) so to argue that unless we immediately stop all abortions and make all homosexuals act straight God is going to judge our nation seems ridiculous.

    I am not arguing that homosexuality is not a sin, so please don’t jump all over that. And I think God does mourn for every aborted baby, just as He mourns every human-inflicted death of any kind, including war and allowing children to die from poverty. I just think this tendency of Christians to think that homosexuality and abortion is the only evil out there is why we can’t seem to come together as a nation and try to fix ALL of the problems we are currently facing. I mean, seriously, can you see Jefferson and Adams running against each other on the culture war issues of today? Something tells me both men would address the much larger problems the nation is facing.

  22. Maz said

    Kash: So because Christians sometimes sin, and there is problems in straight marriages etc. etc. that we should overlook homosexuality? It is one of the vilest of sins, and God says it is an abomination. That doesn’t mean to say either, that all other sin is not as bad. All sin is sin. All is punishable. But thanks be to God for His unspeakable gift of Jesus His dear Son. It really sounds as if you are defending them.

    Let us not kid ourselves that God would not allow these things to happen because of sin in a nation or a city. I believe America, once known as a Christian country, as was Britain, is crumbling from the inside out, and allowing foreign gods to come in freely to worship, while Christianity is slowly being driven out of public life. America is opening itself up wide to calamities because of what they have allowed to happen. Gods protection is over the nations that honour God, but can we expect His protection when we are dishonouring Him and allowing these foreign gods to take His place in the public life of the nation?

    The hurricane was named Katrina. Is that just a coincidence?

  23. Kash said

    “The hurricane was named Katrina. Is that just a coincidence?”

    I don’t understand what you mean by this. Please explain.

  24. Maz said

    Kash: The meanig of the name Katrina is Pure.

  25. Kash said

    Aahh, I see. God specifically told the National Hurricane Center what the hurricane names were going to be in 2003. He also apparently made certain that the government response to the crisis would be incompetent, so that even more people would die in the post hurricane chaos.

    I apologize for the sarcasm, but is that really how you believe in your heart that God works in the world? I find that a very disturbing world view. To celebrate tragedy as God’s judgement seems at best very callous, and at worst playing right into Satan’s desire for us as humanity to destroy ourselves.

  26. Maz said

    Kash: God has worked that way before. Why do you think the Holocaust happened?
    Now this is a very sensitive issue but we find the answer in the OT.
    I want to make it clear that I have Jewish ancestors and that I love the Jewish people and have helped them financially to return to their own country, for I believe that God is regathering them now to their homeland.
    I had a great struggle over the terrible things that happened in the Holocaust, and how God could allow such things to happen, but Christians in this day and age suffer torture and death for their faith, why does He allow that to happen?
    There are many miraculous stories that came out of Katrina, as was out of the Holocaust and out of the tragedy of the Twin Towers. People were saved that maybe that would not have been had they not faced death that day. I believe it would have been better to die in a tragedy saved, than not to go through a tragedy and be lost forever. But…hey….God works in ways we cannot fathom, His thoughts are higher than our thoughts, His ways are higher than our ways.
    I cannot say for absolute certainty that Katrina was sent from the Hand of God, or whether He sent the Tsunami Boxing Day a few years ago….I don’t know, but we must look at these things and wonder, and pray, and seek Gods face, because there will be a Great Tribulation one day and that WILL be Gods judgment poured out upon the earth. Maybe it’s a Wake Up call…..we need to be listening and watching and praying.

  27. Kasha said

    It’s a wake up call, all right. That we’d better get busy feeding the hungry, giving clean water to the thirsty, inviting in the stranger, clothing the naked, caring for the sick, and visiting those in prison. Otherwise we might find ourselves in with the goats instead of the sheep when He returns, regardless of our position on homosexuals, abortion, and hurricanes.

    (I know, I refer to Matthew 25: 31-46 a lot, but for me its the clearest indication of what my Lord wants me to be doing while I eagerly await His return.)

  28. Maz said

    Kasha: That is what we can all practically do in this world, as well as witness of Jesus. But there are also issues in this world that we cannot close our eyes to or shove under the proverbial rug because they make us uncomfortable or even unpopular with other people, particularly other Christians. We have to help the less fortunate in the world, but we cannot afford to stay silent when we see such sin being legalised in our countries. We have to stand for what is right and true.

  29. Kasha said

    Agreed. But I continue to maintain that when it comes to the rulers and principalities of this world, it is not always as obvious as some seem to think which are the sheep and which are the wolves in sheep’s clothing.

  30. Kasha said

    And people will sin whether it is legal or not, and people will become convicted of their sin and repent in spite of the sin’s legal status.

  31. Maz said

    Kasha: #29, All true believers are sheep.
    But I think you may be confusing the time at the end when Jesus separates the sheep nations from the goat nations, the sheep from the goats.
    Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved even if their works are burnt up.
    We need to do ‘the works’ but they are not to be done to gain salvation.

    #30. But we don’t need to make laws to help people to sin.

  32. Maz said

    Kash: We need the spirit of discernment today to recognise the wolves. Their growl can sometimes give them away. 🙂

  33. F. L. A. said

    Wolves are both smarter, stronger, and more honorable than stupid, smelly, weak, easily killed and manipulated sheep.

    We liked your post#21 and #27 Kash.

    Maz, we love your character, but as Americans, and Americans who like[most]people, we believe that you are [I shall be polite]….mistaken… in regards to post#s 20,22,and 26. I am sure that your opinions regarding the great tsunami that rose up from the Indian Ocean and ravaged the Indonesian islands in 2004 are just as interesting.
    Despite what you would like to believe, “America” was a nation of Pagans before it was dominated by the foreign Christian invaders.

  34. Maz said

    F.L.A: Jesus is the Good Shepherd, He looks after the sheep not the wolves. I’d rather follow Him than be part of a pack of wolves.

    I may be mistaken with the Tsunami and the Hurricanes, but Jesus did say there would be Tribulation in the Last Days, and He listed them. Tell me, how did He know?

    America may have been a nation of Pagans…..are you referring to the North American Indians? But now it is slowly being dominated by a secular religion of materialism and Anti-Christianity. Money is a god.

    Whatever you believe, judgment will come…..one day…..and I don’t think it is in the distant future either, not the way America and the world is going right now.

  35. John said

    Ferox is busy eating birthday pork parts.
    The wolves need no looking after Maz[knowing smile].
    They have each other.

    The next big storm on the way which may become our next hurricane has been named “Nana”, a grandmothers name.
    Do you think this could be your Gods way of teaching us to respect our elders?
    Or perhaps he’s upset over the neglect of the elderly within our nations Nursing Homes.
    “Nana” may very well die out before reaching our shores.
    If so, then what do you think THAT may signify?!
    Have a great day, Maz.

  36. Maz said

    John: I’m not a prophet, so it is anyones guess. But God WILL have His way whatever you believe. Mocking God will put you in a dangerous position anyway. So I shouldn’t tempt Him!

  37. F. L. A. said

    He was not mocking your God, Maz, he was poking fun at YOU.
    You should try not to take things so seriously. It is unhealthy.

  38. Maz said

    F.L.A: Whether you realise it or not, when you poke fun at me you poke fun at God, because I am one of His children. It would be the same with any Christian.

    I can appreciate humour but there is a limit when God is involved and He takes things very seriously when you question Him.

  39. F. L. A. said

    Then perhaps you should be grateful that John and I are more respectful, understanding, and supportive in regards to YOUR theological belief system than ever you are to ours.

  40. F. L. A. said

    Enjoy these “yucks” while you can, Maz, for by next Summer they shall be halved.
    I am leaving for an undetermined amount of time after the Spring Equinox.

  41. Maz said

    F.L.A: I think I have given you more respect and understanding than I have received from you and John, but maybe it is how we see it from our own perspectives. I certainly feel like Christianity and particular my beliefs in the Bible, in Genesis, and the 6 day creation have not been treated with any respect or understanding but ridiculed and derided.
    OK….you don’t believe it. Neither do I believe your theology, but I do not speak to you about it like you speak to me about mine.

  42. F. L. A. said

    We never call your deity “god”, and on occasion we have both stood up against annoying Atheist to defend Christianity.Would you ever attempt such actions were the situation reversed? NO, of course not, because you would never entertain the possibility that your ways are not the only ways, and when conversing with those who are different would not even display the common courtesy of not treating others theologies as anything other than satanic lies.
    “For their own good” I imagine, because you just care soooo much? We ridicule your theories when they involve the sciences, and when you appear to be a hypocrite.
    As I stated above, assuming that we can keep from being banned from the site, soon you shall not have to worry about me any more.
    Be patient.

  43. Maz said

    F.L.A: I cannot be anything but true to my faith and my God. I appreciate your posts when you have defended the Christian viewpoint, and in some ways that has surprised me because you don’t believe in the Christian God. But why should you have to ridicule anyone? There are very good reasons and evidences….scientific evidences for believing in Creation. Disagreement in this belief does not have to result in ridicule or derision.
    And I am as patient as I can possibly be in the circumstances.

  44. John said

    Maz……..we DO believe in your deity, we just also believe in more at the same time. As stated before, we are non-Christian, not anti-Christian, but we stand for good sense, reason, and the facts of any matter as supported by the best evidences available on any topic. You certainly don’t seem to mind Ferox’s analytical attitude when it’s directed at someone you disagree with[grin]. I believe that we follow the Golden Rule better than you do on this matter.

  45. F. L. A. said

    Maz, if it appears as if I am focusing on you “unfairly” then it may simply be because, being retired, you are on here posting more than many of the others on this site, thus attracting more of my[unwanted?]attention.
    I apologize for hurting your feelings, if I hurt your feelings.
    It was not my intentions to do so.
    My skin is very thick. It is easy for me to forget that many others are not armed thus.

  46. Maz said

    John: If you truly believed in my ”deity” as you say, then you would not believe in any other gods. To believe in my ‘deity’, my God, you have to believe that He is the Only true God, otherwise your belief in Him is not true belief.
    Ofcourse I don’t mind Ferox’s analytical attitude, I don’t mind it when it is directed towards me, but it is the bad attitudes I don’t like, and are not necessary whatever you believe about it.
    And I do try to be reasonable about everything.

  47. Maz said

    F.L.A: I really don’t mind you disagreeing with me and putting your point of view, as I said to John, it’s peoples attitude that sometimes spoil the debate.
    My feelings are not hurt. As we have said before it is difficult to hear peoples tone of voice when reading a post. I can get frustrated and I can get weary with the same ol’ argument, but I can enjoy a good discussion if it is respectful and intelligent. Ofcourse because of what I believe, my intelligence has been slighted many times and I do think that is unjust. I have read and looked at the sciences (astronomy, physics, biology, palaeontology, archeology) since I was a child (I didn’t know Ken Ham or any other ministry like his existed then), and ofcourse I have read the Bible several times through so I am not ignorant of what science teaches and what the Bible says, and after all that, I am convinced of what I believe because I have weighed up all the evidence.

  48. F. L. A. said

    In regards to post#46, remember our little discussion, our analogy involving the “President of China”?
    It is a belief like that. We can believe in the existence of him and have a degree of respect for him as a cosmic power within the universe, but without any obligation to follow his dogma, as we are subjects of different cosmic powers.
    I hope that this is the last time and way I have to explain this.

  49. Maz said

    F.L.A: I understand the fact that you are subjects of different cosmic powers. The powers of darkness. And although you aren’t ‘obliged’ to follow His ‘dogma’, you will one day have to answer to Him for not recognising Him for Who He is and what He has done for you.

  50. F. L. A. said

    As John would say….believe whatever brings you strength and joy[Even if it does make you seem like a theological bigot].
    It matters not to us.

  51. John said

    Ditto on that, with the addition of “and it’s not as if you can prove otherwise anyway” and”Re-read post#39″.
    That’s us Maz,”Children of a lesser God”[weary smile]. And HOW exactly does post#49 prove your post#41 to be true? You do this sort of thing AN AWFUL LOT, you know.

  52. Maz said

    John and Ferox: I can only tell it as it is according to what the Word of God says, if that sounds bigotted or disrespectful then I cannot help that. As I said before I have to stay true to the Bible and to my faith in God.
    And I have lost almost all hope of ever proving anything to you.
    If you ever come to know Jesus Christ as the Only Savior, Lord and God, it will not be through this debate but through a Divine revelation straight from God Himself. I pray it will happen before it is too late for you both.

  53. John said

    Perhaps it will Maz, perhaps it will.
    But it probably won’t.
    Perhaps far far into the future if I survive long enough to become an old man[and not just old, but OLDE], and I am senile and confused, some young evangelistic smooth talking whipper-snapper will trick me into repenting, saying the “Sinners Prayer”, and become saved.
    OR….I might just whack said hypothetical evangelistic pest across the teeth with my cane and utter curses[Remember,I’m senile and confused.Probably cantankerous too[grin].]
    It’s an awful risky thing messing with old Witches. I can easily see myself on the front porch in my favorite rocking chair with a shotgun in my arms, waiting and hoping for something to shoot at.
    I guess we shall just have to wait and see what the future holds, eh?

  54. confusedteenager said

    Um, idk if any1 is still debating, or even overlooking this, but i have a question….can God forgive people who were introduced to homosexuality at an early age (about 4 or 5) and then changed and became a christian?
    I dont understand, because in leviticus 20:13 it says if a man lies with another man as one lies with a women, both has done what is detestable.They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own hands.

    idk if this is just one of the old testiment things that changes,
    but can’t that be forgiven?

  55. Stanley said

    If you do ANYTHING remotely gay, God never forgives or forgets. NOTHING in the bible changes, except when it does.

    Being gay is perfectly fine. Not being gay is perfectly fine. I’m not gay, but people who are deserve equal treatment, in God’s eyes, and in the eye of the law.

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