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Are Mormons born again?

Posted by truthtalklive on September 15, 2008

On today’s show Stu interviews Author and radio host Shawn McCraney. Mr. McCraney wrote the book titled “I was a born again Mormon.” He is also the talk show host of The Shawn McCraney Show airing on our Salt Lake City affiliate AM 820 KUTR! For more information please visit: http://www.bornagainmormon.com/book.htm. Still have questions/struggles call Russ at (801)-645-7433. Russ is the general manager of AM 820 KUTR The Truth in Utah! 

Check out this video with Shawn McCraney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y6js9xDXJ0 

After the show check out the podcast at www.wtru.com

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28 Responses to “Are Mormons born again?”

  1. Maz said

    If any Mormon was born-again then he or she would have to deny some of their teachings. Particularly the nature of man and the nature of God.

  2. Maz said

    I watched the video link with Shawn McCraney. This is not a matter to joke about or treat lightly. I found it distasteful.

  3. Stanley said

    mormon beliefs are almost as crazy as the scientologists.

  4. Brad said

    Holy smokes, Stu – this is disappointing. I hope to be able to call in today, but not sure if I’ll be able to.

    A few things to comment on from the link to his site (though there are many):

    …nothing plays a more important theological role than the idea that there are certain laws and principles that have always and forever existed – even before God – which must be adhered to and followed in order for God’s people to progress. Such a far-reaching theological premise will help all readers understand why so many other seemingly unusual doctrines and practices (relative to the orthodox Christianity) exist within the Church.

    Really? I wasn’t aware there was ANYTHING before God, including any “laws and principles”. This goes DIRECTLY against the Bible. If this excerpt from Chapter 7 in his book means he’s in agreement with that, then he truly doesn’t understand Scripture.

    Born-Again Mormons recognize the Book of Mormon as a piece of 19th century literary fiction aimed at teaching Jesus Christ. We reject the story of its origins.

    Aimed at teaching Jesus Christ? Which one – Christianity’s, or Mormonism’s? To say it’s aimed at that is not to make a good distinguishment between Mormonism and Christianity, but to actually lend creedence to their argument that they are worshiping the same Christ!

    Born-Again Mormons recognize no other book but the Bible as the Word of God, but agree that other books have the ability to move man toward Him.

    This comment, as it relates to “Other LDS Books of Scripture” on his website, is as harmful as the previous comment – it does nothing to distinguish between Mormonism and Christianity, and the different versions of “God” they each worship!

    Born-Again Mormons believe in actively supporting the LDS Church in an effort to bring other members to the Lord. We will do all that is asked of us except teach certain LDS theologies and/or sing certain LDS hymns which are in direct conflict with biblical truth.

    What!!?? “Actively supporting”? Are you kidding? Here’s the problem – the LDS church IS NOT bringing other members to the Lord, b/c it’s not THE LORD they’re bringing their members to! It’s the distorted, wrong idea of what God is that they’re bringing members to. To make this statement that he does is yet another example of the lack of clarity that is being made.

    Born-Again Mormons accept the idea of heaven and reject any and all descriptions of it outside of biblical authority.

    What exactly does this mean? Do you accept the Mormon view of Heaven (in all its parts), b/c they believe their version is based on the Bible, too? Or do you accept the Christian version, which we also believe is based on the Bible? This is a pretty vague statement whereby you haven’t really had to say what you believe about it. Can you be more specific?

    Born-Again Mormons accept the biblical concepts of hell, while remembering that our God is an all-good God.

    And what exactly does this mean? Does the concept of an “all-good God” have a bearing on what you think hell will be? What exactly are your “biblical” concepts of hell? B/c Mormons have what they would also call a “biblical” concept of hell. You’ve been to vague to be effective, and left open the door.

    All in all, ministries like this are extremely dangerous. They try to “bridge a gap”, if you will, between Christianity and another belief system (in this case, Mormonism), but try to do so without saying certain things, without trying to be offensive, so as to try and gain understanding from the other side. But the Gospel – the true Gospel – IS, by its very nature, offensive, and should never be watered down. Wrong is wrong, and incorrect beliefs are incorrect beliefs, no matter who holds them.

    If you’re born again, you’re born again, period. You know what a born-again Mormon is (if they’ve TRULY been born again)? A Christian – they’re NO LONGER A MORMON, and shouldn’t want to be identified with that any further!

    Stu, I hope you are able to hit on some of these topics today. Very dangerous.

  5. Maz said

    Stanley: It seems everyone is crazy when they don’t believe what you do. What do you believe…. really?

  6. Maz said

    Welcome back Brad to the subject of Mormonism, I wonder if Amanda is about?

  7. Former Mormon in North Carolina said

    I guess this site is highly moderated. My post has not appeared.

  8. Brad said

    It is fairly highly moderated, there have been some unsavory comments by a few individuals in the past that has caused it to be so.

    If yours isn’t that way, it will make it on here soon.

  9. Maz said

    Maybe the Moderator can let Former Mormon know the rules on here.

  10. Former Mormon in North Carolina said

    My post was in the same vein and tone as Brad’s so I am not sure what the problem is. Will the Moderator notify me as to the reasons the post was rejected?

    I also apologize. I thought I had done something wrong so the post was resubmitted when it did not appear after 1/2 hour.

  11. Maz said

    It sometimes happens. I’v lost a couple before now.

  12. F. L. A. said

    Maz, everyone IS crazy.
    Amanda is happily doing her own thing. John and I converse with her regularly, and I believe that she has grown tired of the debates here, and thus has decided to keep away and actually get more out of LIFE.

  13. Stanley said

    There are lots of crazies out there. Not everyone though.

  14. Maz said

    F.L.A: I think I heard that eating raw meat made one crazy. Is that true?

  15. Maz said

    Stanley: F.L.A does not agree with you. But anyway, we’re getting off the subject again.

  16. Barney said

    RE:7

    If you included a link in your post it will be held until the moderator can clear it.

  17. F. L. A. said

    Maz, you are asking one who already thinks of themselves as “somewhat insane”?
    Good Evening.

  18. Stanley said

    I’m not insane…

  19. Tripp said

    Stanley’s about as much fun as a house plant. What a negative guy.

  20. Hi Former Mormon – Re: comment #10…

    It did not show up in the moderation queue, so not sure what happened. Please try to post the link again and we’ll look out for it.

    Tripp – You know the rules here. Warning #1 issued.

    Thank you,
    Moderator
    (not Stu)

  21. Stanley said

    I’m actually an optimist. I think people are basically good, even against my better judgment. I just think people are misguided, and crazy.

  22. Maz said

    Stanley: #21. Because they don’t believe what you do.

  23. Former Mormon in North Carolina said

    I was born again last year after more than 40 years in Mormonism. My exit from Mormonism is a story of grace, pure and simple, not unlike Shawn’s. I did not leave the church because of its history or its doctrine–although I was certainly aware of its problems. (In fact, I was am amateur apologist who worked as a researcher at BYU during college).

    However, God called me OUT of the church into his grace. Staying in the church would have meant “set[ting] aside his grace” (Galatians 2:20-21).

    A key aspect of being born again is a renewing of the mind. All of the Mormon apologetic arguments and justifications melted away for me. However, I appreciate and understand that it takes time to unlearn this “other gospel” of Mormonism (Galatians 1), but the place to do it is NOT IN the Mormon church.

    Helping born-again Mormons “appreciate and support positive aspects of church membership” (Shawn’s website) is not what Paul had in mind when he said “[If] we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8 KJV).

    The Greek word for accursed is anathema which also means “a thing devoted to God without hope of being redeemed.” It is not Biblical, I believe, to think that “integration of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints into the existing body of Christ” (Shawn’s website) is possible nor desirable.

    There are other Bible verses (that I am sure will be quoted by others here and on the program today) that make it clear that we need to separate ourselves from the false doctrine of Mormonism. I think it is naive of Shawn to think that born-again Mormons can “simultaneously (but politely) reject any doctrine or practice contrary to biblical truth and authentic Christian beliefs” (Shawn’s website).

    For one thing, once a member starts speaking (no matter how politely) against the doctrine and the leaders of the church, they will find themselves on the outside (ex-communicated). So, what value is there to remain in a church that is not what it claims and try to remain safely silent for fear of losing a cultural identity that should have been shed at the time of being born again?

    Why not exit the church to be free to praise God and share Christ’s grace with those with whom we recently associated? Staying in the church, I believe, stunts our witness to current members.

  24. John said

    From one who was without question born again unto Christ and whose faith in the Bible was restored through the Holy Ghost witnessing as I was reading the Book of Mormon, I can only say that the posts here look like the results of minds who are bored with learning about the true and living God and are looking for someone to pick on and feel superior too. There are some people who are spiritually sleep walking in all the churches. Why should the LDS Church be any different? Thus we find those who call themselves “Born Again Mormons” outside the Church.

  25. Maz said

    John: ”There are some people who are spiritually sleep walking in all the churches.” I would agree with you there. But trying to show when someone is in error because we care for their spiritual welfare is nothing to do with ‘minds who are bored with learning about the true and living God’ and wanting to ‘pick on and feel superior’ to someone. The LDS Church is not just ‘different’ it is in error as our friend who is a former Mormon has testified.

    And there is no such thing as a ‘born-again Mormon’, just as there is no such thing as a born-again atheist, or a born-again agnostic.

    Former Mormon: (Is it not possible to know your name?) I agree with all you say. John is looking from the outside in, he doesn’t understand the mind and heart of a true born-again Christian.

  26. David said

    “Former Mormon from North Carolina” here.

    My name is David. I grew up in Provo, served a mission in Paris France, graduated from BYU, lived and worked in Utah until I moved to North Carolina in 1993. I come from a four-generation Mormon family (five if you include my children). I served in many leadership roles (High Priest group leader, Bishopric) and taught nearly every kind of class in the church (Sunday School, Primary, etc.)

    I am not unsympathetic to the difficulty of pulling away from the culture and organization of Mormonism especially in Utah. Personally, I have not attended the Mormon church since I was born again. My wife comes from a long-line of Methodist ministers so we attend that demonination (yes, I recognize some irony there).

    However, just months after I was born again, my son and his wife had a baby boy (my first grandchild). I traveled to Utah and while I was there the baby was blessed (a sort of Mormon version of christening to those not familiar). Now, I chose to attend the service but I did not “stand in” (even though I was technically still a member of the church and held the Melchezidek Priesthood). Now, many would say I should not have attended at all on the principle that I was supporting a false religion.

    I can also be criticized for not zealously trying to evangelize to my children who still remain LDS. They know where I stand and we have discussed some things but I have not been hard-sell. So, I understand the emotional battle here.

    But I think to promote changing the Mormon church from within is not a gray area. And to think that a new Christian can grow and thrive despite remaining in the church is dangerous. I find the message on Shawn’s website (I have not read the book) confusing. He seems to promote staying in church (although he eventually left it) yet he offers recommendations for non-Mormon places to worship in Utah.

    Is Shawn’s message just to ease out of it or to stay in it to reform it?

    What did Jesus say? His message was not unclear. Luke 9:

    57 As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.”

    58 Jesus replied, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

    59 He said to another man, “Follow me.” But the man replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

    60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”

    61 Still another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good-by to my family.”

    62 Jesus replied, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

  27. Maz said

    David: Unless someone goes through what you have they cannot possibly judge you for what you have or have not done. I’m a born-again Christian and I went to my grandsons Christening. It was in a Church of England Church, the minister apparently was born-again but the service was hypocritical because, my son, his girlfriend (who’s baby was being christened), and family and friends were all non-Christians and wouldn’t darken a Church door except for ‘hatched, matched and dispatched’ services. They read words from a card but they didn’t mean them. I prayed silently while I was there but I did find it difficult to be present in this situation. There are times in life when you have to face these situations and pray that God will show you what the right decision is.

  28. John said

    No, Maz, I’m afraid you are just wrong about the LDS Church. You are the one “outside looking in” on the Mormons, and you seem not to understand that being “born again” is a spiritual condition. Nor do you understand that it is not the heart and mind of a self-proclaimed “born again Christian” that I should be trying to understand–only the mind and will of God. That, I have been doing, which led me to the Church and keeps me in it. Being born again is often a process, although sometimes an event, which happens in the heart of an individual and is between God, his word, the Holy Ghost, and the individual alone. You are unable to judge what has taken part in my heart and character and unable to judge my personal relationship with Jesus. You are certainly unable to claim a monopoly on the Bible. I know you think the Bible gives you license to do so (judge another’s religion and relationship with God), but if you had a complete handle on the Bible, there would be room for Mormons in your Christian world too. God has verified the Bible in no uncertain terms to those who sincerely want to know through the Book of Mormon. Once you have the two testaments, the two witnesses of Christ to verify each other, there is no more excuse for 800 Christian churches to be so diversified in doctrine. (I know the diversity from my life experiences.) God has brought light to the subject Himself in no uncertain terms to the heart and mind that honestly inquires and then listens.

    You no doubt think the Mormons are the ones who have done the perverting, but I and all faithful Mormons will just have to live with your thinking that until God sees fit to soften such hearts, one at a time. To live and let live is something you too may want to consider while you seek out those who know that they have not Christ in their hearts instead of those who do. Listening to former Mormons who weren’t born again when they were converted to the Church or while learning about the Church, or even within the Church, sends up a red flag to me to begin with and only perpetuates misinformation.

    Peace,
    John

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