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A woman in the White House?

Posted by truthtalklive on September 3, 2008

Should Christians be excited about Sara Palin, John McCain’s pick for Vice President? Please leave comments here and to get in on our on-air discussion call 1-866-34-truth(87884) at 5pm (EST).

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410 Responses to “A woman in the White House?”

  1. Duncan Chapman said

    A common Christain friend of mine and yours at my work suggested I listen to your show; however, after today I won’t be doing so again. You truly are a raging, dilusional, idiot. I firmly believe that if John McCain had choosen an air-headed Playboy bunny, and she simply professed being a Christain and a supporter of Pro-Life, that you (and the rest of the right-wing, self-righteous, evangelical world) would try to put enough positive spin on her credentials to try and make us think she was qualified to lead the most powerful nation on the planet! Where are all the Christians – that in spite of their right-to-life beliefs – are brave enough, and smart enough, to look at this choice for what it is? A HUGE mistake! Forget that I’m a Democrat for ALL the reasons most are; simply an American, this terrifies me!! I’m all for a woman in the White House, and/or as VP, but to try and pass this particular woman off as someone who is TRULY qualified for a job of this magnitude, is absurd, and insulting to us all. I know, all you know to say is that Obama is just as inexperienced (which he’s not, but…), but try for just a minute to not compare her to him, and look at her on her own; a joke!

  2. John said

    Wow, Mr.Chapman.
    [smile]I hope that you at least hang around on this site.
    Some people here may want to ask you questions.

  3. Jeff42 said

    I am very amused by the double standard of the Obama crowd. Sarah Palin is more qualified to be president that Barack Obama is! She has far more executive experience than he does. This experience argument is a double edge sword for the democrats. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not head over heals excited about McCain either. I just find this all out attack on Palin a little bit hypocritical. Between Palin and Obama, Obama scares me far more than Palin. I think the truth is that the Democrats are afraid of Palin’s impact on the race, so they are out to destroy her. I don’t think it will work. We’ll know soon enough.

  4. Barney said

    Stu, two things:

    Firstly you said on the show (I’m paraphrasing) that “Obama is all for killing a nine month baby hanging out of the womb”. Do you even realize the ridiculous things you are saying while you are browbeating your callers?

    Secondly, and I only mention this because you make such a deal about the sanctity of marriage, why don’t we ever hear you mention that McCain’s family values include divorcing his crippled wife to marry his mistress?

    Once again Truth Talk Live shows that it is really about Right Wing politics, but we knew that.

    best,
    Barney

    P.S. Stu, when are running for office?

  5. Duncan Chapman said

    First of all, I’d like to apologize to Stu; I shouldn’t have attacked him personally (at least not in a public forum like this), but I stand by the rest of what I said. I will say that Obama doesn’t have the amount of experience I’d like to see in a presidential candidate, but I personally believe he makes up for some of that inexperience with tremendous charisma and poise. Back to Palin… She’s not running against Obama; she should be judged on her experience alone, which is minimal. If she had the equaivent experience of Hillary, or any other long-term Senator or Govenor – reguardless of party – I wouldn’t say a thing other than good luck in November; however, that’s not the case, is it? Drink the “Kool-Aid” spin if you want to, or because you have to, but the “Truth” will set you free. I’ll keep checking in John, so fire away.

  6. Stanley said

    The “executive experience” is the worst argument I’ve heard for Palin. She has 20 months in ALASKA. No one lives there. Winston, Greensboro and High Point have way more people living in them than Alaska does.

    The democrats aren’t afraid of Palin at all. Shes the laughing stock of the nation. Seriously, Democrats are overjoyed at the choice of Palin. If he’d chosen Romney or Liberman, they might have been concerned.

  7. Mr. Chapman – Normally we give 3 warnings when someone breaks our rules. We’re going to give you 2 because you so immaturely and personally attacked our host. You had the decency to apologize, so we’ll give you one more shot.

    The rules are:
    1 – No personal attacks.
    2 – No profanity.
    3 – No links to websites containing profanity or obscenity.
    4 – Respect each other and speak kindly regardless of whether you agree, or not.

    Failure to comply will result in banishment from the site. We own it. We can do what we want. We don’t care if you think it’s censorship.

    Feel free to browse as many threads as you’d like and you’ll find people from many different faiths respectfully debating the issues without taking personal swipes at each other.

    Thank you,
    Moderator (not Stu)

  8. Duncan Chapman said

    Mr. Moderator,
    Again, I’m sorry I broke your #1 rule – I admit I was wrong – but in that it seems to be a goal of Stu’s to whip his listeners into a frenzy over controversal issues (I assume it boosts the show’s ratings), I thought I’d follow suit and say what I thought on-line; I guess I got a little carried away. I’m not sure how I got from three strikes to one in only one post, but anyway… I guess I struck a “conservative nerve” with you; thanks for giving me another shot. I’ll do my best to behave in the future, but if you don’t want anymore challenging viewpoints to your base listeners of conservatives, go ahead and banish me; because like you said, you own it, you can do what you want, and you don’t care. Peace.

  9. Stanley said

    The people on Fox News are such hypocrites. Its embarrassing.

  10. Duncan – Please continue to dialogue and challenge. That’s what we want. Intelligent, respectful debate and discussion. I don’t think we’ve ever had someone come right out and insult our fine host like that. Perhaps that’s why we rushed to defend the guy we know and love. You may not agree with Stu, but trust us when we say that you will never meet a finer, caring person. Stu stands up for what he believes and yes, he gets worked up. But that’s only because of his passion.

    We’re pretty patient. We won’t banish you unless we absolutely have to. In 2 years only 3 people have been banned. Those are good odds.

    Moderator
    (not Stu)

  11. Stanley said

    Stu is a really nice guy by the way, even if you think his political views are wacky.

  12. Kash said

    I’m going to regret posting this, but here goes anyway. I agree that family ought to be off limits. But if Chelsea had gotten pregnant as an unwed teenager, the same people who are now so sanctimoniously outraged at the media coverage of Sarah Palin would have had a field day bashing Hillary’s parenting…and everything else about her. Remember, these same people now touting Sarah Palin’s “executive experience” were brutal about Hillary claiming experience for the years she was married to the president…and actively involved in policy. And no, I was not a Hillary supporter. I’m just someone who is amazed at the partisan hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle, but more disturbed when it comes from people claiming the moral high ground.

  13. F. L. A. said

    Well Kash, they’re only human.

  14. Kash said

    But they claim to be Christian! How is it Christian to consistently tear each other down? To disregard the truth to advance an agenda? To mock anything good in order to vilify the other person?

  15. F. L. A. said

    Huuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…
    Perhaps a Christian will answer those questions for you Kash.
    I could and would, but it might not be “proper” of me to do so, for I am a Pagan creep. If none of then do, THEN I[Or perhaps John or one of the Atheists?] shall give it a try.

  16. Maz said

    I can’t say much about the American Presidential candidates, I don’t know enough about American politics being thousands of miles away, but Christians should atleast put effort into living a life that is honouring to God and His Word and not doing things that would give Him, the Church or other Christians a bad name.
    Christians are still human, but that is no excuse for living like everyone else.
    But we don’t have to struggle to be good, if Jesus Christ has truly changed us and made us new creatures when we are born again, then we should act differently from the world and we have the Holy Spirit living in us to help us aswell.
    I seek, in my life as a Christian, to be what God wants me to be, and to live according to what is written in His Word. I hope his helps.

  17. Duncan Chapman said

    I’m truly amazed and encouraged by the responses I’m reading from bloggers like Kash, Stanley, and Barney. I never thought there would be as many like-minded Christians on this site that see things as they truly are, and not as the (moral) majority would like them to believe. BTW… I did watch Palin’s speech last night, and she actually is a likeable person (if you can get past all the one-liners about Obama); however, I still don’t think she’s a viable canidate for VP of the United States. Her debates with Biden should at least be more interesting than I’d anticipated.

  18. F. L. A. said

    Stanley and Barney may not be Christians Mr.Chapman[If this even matters to you.]. Perhaps they are flattered by your kind words.
    We actually have a rather well-rounded, diverse group of people here on this site. Do not let whatever happens on the radio show bother you too much, for as mentioned in the past, all of the REAL debate and exchanging of ideas takes place HERE.

  19. H W M said

    Stu,
    After seeing Sara Palin’s acceptace speech, I am quite content with the thought of her being in the White House. The attacks on her character has been on a scale unseen in my lifetime.

  20. Mike S. said

    Barney said
    “why don’t we ever hear you mention that McCain’s family values include divorcing his crippled wife to marry his mistress?”

    Barney, did you happen to see the interview at Saddleback? When McCain was asked, “What do you consider your greatest moral failure?” He humbly answered “The failure of my first marriage”. Pretty humble and honest huh? Contrast to Obama’s response when asked in an interview in 2005 “What is sin?” His answer… “Being out of alignment with my values.” Notice he said MY values not God’s. I think the moral choice is very clear!! Humility or Arrogance? I choose humility any day!!

    Happy Day!! 🙂

  21. Mike S. said

    Sorry, wrong date. 2004 actually. The transcript of the interview is at this website:

    http://falsani.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-2004-god-factor-interview.html

    The dude has a twisted view of what it means to be a Christian.

    When asked “do you pray often?”, he says:
    “Uh, yeah, I guess I do.
    Its’ not formal, me getting on my knees. I think I have an ongoing conversation with God. I think throughout the day, I’m constantly asking myself questions about what I’m doing, why am I doing it.”

    Does this mean he thinks he’s God himself? I doubt it but he certainly shares a lot of New Age thinking with Oprah. You know… we have to find the God within us… twisted…

  22. Mike S. said

    Stanley
    For a “laughing stock of the nation”, she sure had the attention of 39 million viewers to she what she had to say… Your comments indicate that you are a little out of touch with reality bro.

  23. Stanley said

    People are interested. Mostly because she is the funniest VP nomination in recent history.

  24. Brad said

    Time will tell, Stanley. Let’s discuss again after the 2nd Tuesday in November.

  25. Stanley said

    Agreed.

    There are a lot of crazies out there.
    General statement.

  26. Barney said

    Dear Mike S.,

    I wasn’t addressing you, but FWIW:

    McCain’s marriage didn’t fail, McCain failed his marriage (and his promise before God). Is that your idea of Christian behaviour? He bailed out when times got tough. That’s not the image the right wing propaganda machine wants you have, is it?

    He’s a hot headed, womanizing ex-pilot who needs to be retired, not promoted.

    Hope this helps,
    Barney

  27. Maz said

    Remember King David? A man after Gods own heart? Jesus is called the Son of David.
    God doesn’t write people off when they sin….He forgives them…if they repent.

  28. Tim said

    It’s perfectly fine to have a woman in the White House; as long as she’s part of the cleaning staff.

  29. Maz said

    Tim: That is blatantly sexist.

  30. Tim – We’d like you to apologize for your comment (#28). We didn’t think it was very funny and I’m sure you’ll have plenty of other detractors on here as well. If you’d like to debate the issues and tell us why you don’t think Sarah Palin should be in the White House, then that would be great! Otherwise, keep these types of comments to yourself.

    Thank you,
    Moderator
    (not Stu)

  31. Tripp said

    It blows my mind how anyone in their right mind can watch McCain’s speach and tribute last night and think it would be a good idea for Obama and Biden. It just makes no sense at all. Throw Palin in the mix and you’ve got an unstoppable force. The democrats are still divided. The republicans are not. It’s going to be a heck of a ride.

  32. Kasha said

    Tripp,
    I assure you the republicans are not as uniform as you think. Of course they appear that way during their convention.

    As for the general tone of the speeches an the RNC, I have only the following to say:

    “Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor.”

  33. Maz said

    Kasha: So what did Jesus organise in the community?

    Jesus is a Prophet, Priest and King.

  34. Tim said

    If anyone took my jest seriously, I apologize. It was all meant only as a joke. But honestly, I think the very title of this topic is just as blatantly sexist. Why is this even an issue? What is so shocking, or wrong about the fact that Palin might be our next vice president and she happens to be a woman?

    We’ve come a long way. This topic does not promote growth in Christianity or our culture.

  35. Kasha said

    Just a one-liner to answer the one-liners. Just making the point (again) that Jesus eschewed worldy definitions of power.

  36. F. L. A. said

    Satisfied with these answers, Kash?

  37. Kasha said

    35 was in response to 33.

  38. Kasha said

    FLA,
    I am satisfied that Jesus does not have an opinion about which way I should vote in November. I am satisfied that some sincere Christians will vote Republican, and some sincere Christians will vote Democratic. I am satisfied that although I love my country more than all others, Jesus doesn’t love my country more than all the others.

  39. Maz said

    #35 Kasha: Yes, I agree. His power and His kingdom is not of this world.

  40. Maz said

    We had a woman Prime Minister and I think she did a very good job of it. Not that I agreed with everything she did. But God knows who is going to get in and I don’t think for one minute He is worrying about it. Just vote and pray that His will be done on this earth at is in in Heaven.

  41. Duncan Chapman said

    The fact is, Sarah Palin did a bang-up job delivering a great political attack speech. That makes her a skilled politician, but it doesn’t make her views any more palatable for voters. Most Americans don’t want another far-right, anti-science ideologue in Washington. Like it or not, here are the facts…
    -Palin recently said that the war in Iraq is “God’s task.” (Does she think Dub-ya is God?)
    -Palin has actively sought the support of the fringe Alaska Independence Party (that’s scary!)
    -Palin wants to teach creationism in public schools (that doesn’t even deserve a comment)
    -Palin doesn’t believe that humans contribute to global warming (I guess that Nobel Peace Prize thing for Gore was a joke)
    -Palin has close ties to Big Oil (her inauguration was sponsored by BP!)
    -Palin is extremely anti-choice (I’m sure this thrills some of you, but I won’t go there)
    -Palin opposes comprehensive sex-ed in public schools (Oops! Guess that idea didn’t work at the Palin house)
    -As mayor, Palin tried to ban books from the library (Alaska IS close to Russia ya know)

  42. F. L. A. said

    Good points Mr.Chapman.
    Some people here believe that some of those are good ideas though[That book banning/burning is o.k., the teaching of creationism/intelligent design in all public secular schools, that Global warming/the green house effect is a myth], so this should lead to some interesting discussion.

  43. Kasha said

    There are many who comment on this site who like Sarah Palin for all the reasons that Mr. Chapman (and I) would not vote for her. It just goes to show how deeply this country is divided ideologically. However, my more immediate concerns are how to get health care less expensive in this country, how to keep good jobs from going overseas or else come up with new jobs to replace the ones we’re losing to cheap labor, getting out of Iraq without leaving a bigger mess than we helped create, and a serious attempt to reduce oil use rather than just put it off for a dozen more years. I happen to think the democratic party is better on those issues, and didn’t really see them addressed by the RNC this week.

  44. Maz said

    I am so glad I live in Britain when it comes to health care. We have the NHS and get most of our care free. We have to pay NI (National Insurance) aswell as tax from our wages but it’s worth it. No worries about whether you can afford to get sick and end up in hospital! Why doesn’t America have such a Health Care System?

  45. Duncan Chapman said

    F.L.A., Some of those same people may believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa too; thank goodness the rest of us are intellegent enought to know better. Right? Kasha you’re on the right path; these are MUCH bigger issues than what the single-issue Republicans want to harp on most of the time (I don’t need to tell you what those are). Maz, I don’t know why our country doesn’t provide health care to all its citizens like the UK, but if McCain & Palin win this election, a lot of us Yanks may have to move in with you Britts so we can get it.

  46. F. L. A. said

    Right, although I must confess to believing in things that you yourself may find absurd.

  47. Barney said

    Re: 44

    ***WARNING- Sarcasm Has been detected in the following message***

    But, Maz, dear, don’t you realize that your nationalized healthcare is SOCIALISM???

    That’s evil secular humanist atheistic communist SOCIALISM???

    How can you enjoy that lifestyle and call your self a Christian?

    Right, Stu?

  48. Maz said

    Barney: I don’t vote labour (socialism) for a start and I would rather pay so much per week (actually now I’m an OAP I don’t have to pay) and get free health care than have to go without when the rich have the care because they have the money to pay for it. Health Care should be for everyone the same….that is more Christian than the way your Health Care system is run don’t you think?

  49. Maz said

    Barney: And for another thing, I was born here, I live here, so I have to put up with the government this country has. Don’t worry…I lobby my MP and those in parliament quite often about different issues. Do you?

  50. H W M said

    “National Health Care” sounds good to many. They fail to realize it is just another step toward the “Nany State.” As a wise man said “once the public begins to vote itself money directly from the treasury the end is in sight.”

  51. F. L. A. said

    Well Barney, to try and be fair, it is not as if Maz has any real control over that sort of a thing. If a rose hip starts to grow in a pasture of Sand Spurs it just has to do the best it can to survive, metaphorically speaking.
    She can blame it off on the sinful, fallen, nature of mankind, perhaps.

  52. Maz said

    H W M: That money ‘directly from the treasury’ was ours to begin with, why shouldn’t we use it? We pay enough tax and NHI for it.

  53. Barney said

    That was a comment about Stu’s right wing politics, not Maz’ politics.

    Why am I explaining a joke?

  54. Maz said

    Barney: What joke? 🙂

  55. Mike S. said

    “a lot of us Yanks may have to move in with you Britts so we can get it.”

    So Duncan, I think that’s a great idea… What are you waiting for? Want to take your socialist friends Barney and Obama with you? You guys would fit right in. 🙂 Have a nice weekend!!

  56. H W M said

    Governments have one thing in common, they don’t operate efficintly. NHI wouldn’t be any different. We will end up with a system that offers less but costs more.

  57. Kasha said

    You know, it’s not like there are only two options: leave it as it is, or embrace socialised medicine completely. We just need a way to hold insurance companies accountable: they have to stop dropping people once they get sick, there must be limits to how much premiums can go up (sort of like rent control in NYC), and there must be a bigger safety net for people who fall through the cracks. Everyone who needs health care should be able to get it. Insurance prices must be cheaper. The government needs to regulate insurance providers, not take over them. Also, pharamaceutical companies spend three as much on advertising as they do on research and development, so don’t tell me that we have to pay a lot for drugs in order for them to keep inventing new ones. We have to pay a lot for drugs in order for them to convince us we need more and more of them.

  58. Maz said

    Barney: O THAT joke. Mmmmmm.

    H W M: You are forgetting that some over there don’t get proper health care atall.
    I agree, our health care sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. But I’d rather live here than in the USA as far as the health care goes for those who are less fortunate. How much does an MRI scan cost over there? Or a CT scan? Or chemotherapy? Should we have to put a price on someones health?

  59. Stanley said

    Should your religious beliefs have any effect how if we take you seriously on non-religious matters like government?

    I’d say.

  60. Stanley said

    yes

  61. Chris C. said

    Wow Maz, this may be a first, but I found myself nodding in agreement as i read your posts here regarding health care.

    It is funny to me that many right-wing individuals oppose national health care on the basis that it creates a “nanny-state” or that it is a step towards socialism. Let me ask this, what is more fundamental to the continuance of life than health?

    Yes, police are important. Education is vital. Disaster releif is crucial. But if we cannot afford to keep oursleves well, then we cannot live our lives normally. If government sposored education is okay, and government employees who function as police are okay, then tell me what is so terrible about demanding that everyone (from the poorest among us to bill gates) recieve equal, proper health care. It shouldn’t be a political issue at all. It should be a moral issue.

    Another thing: was anyone else (whatever your political views) disgusted at the fear-mongering videos harkening to 9/11 and the similar content of a couple speeches last night? I mean, how inapropriate is it to put images of terror and death on a screen, scaring and sadenning people, then saying (or implying), this will happen again if you don’t elect John McCain. If people can’t be elected on valid issues, they shouldn’t try to exploit the deaths of 3000 Americans and the fears of millions of others to wing their way into the white house.

  62. Stanley said

    That is why I really dislike Ghouliani. He uses 9/11 as a talking point. Its a tragedy, not a political tool.

  63. Maz said

    Chris: Yes, this is a moral issue. We are talking about whether people live or die. Sometimes this can be the case when someone is so poor they cannot afford the USA treatment.

    How much is a life worth? Rich, poor, young, old, black, red, or white? It should be the same for everyone. We are ALL human beings.

    And using the 9/11 tragedy is absolutely obnoxious, and extremely unfeeling and hurtful for those who lost loved ones on that terrible day.

  64. Stanley said

    We agree on something, Maz!

  65. Tripp said

    God, I loved watching Barack squirm on O’Reilly’s show the other night. I’m not a big fan of O’Reilly, but it was fun watching him put Barack on the spot. Having Sarah Palin in the White House is going to be awesome!

  66. H W M said

    It is no surprise the right has mentioned 9/11 while the left wing remains pretty silent. The right wants to make the point the nation has been safe since the attacks of 9/11. The left knows the fight against terrorism is a weak point and wisely makes few comments on 9/11.

  67. Duncan Chapman said

    Sarah Palin in the White House Tripp? Assuming she and McCain are actually elected (Yikes!), does the VP and their family now live in the “Big House” too? Gee, with that ever expanding brood of hers, it’s gonna get crowded in there. I’m sure McCain’s wife is a nice lady, but I doubt she’d be up for that arrangement. Maybe you think McCain won’t make it through his whole term as Pres. – as many of us fear could happen (with good reason) – and she would inherit the address. Or, maybe you’re implying that she and John… OK, let’s not go there. Hopefully we won’t have to be concerned with any of these scary scenarios. Just kidding around Tripp, but let’s not get too carried away with the lady. 😉

  68. Tripp said

    Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah……your lips are moving, but I can’t hear a dadgum thing. So what if McCain is a hot-headed womanizer? Sounds like he fits in fine with all you liberals and your former heroes like Kennedy and Clinton. So what’s the problem? He’s perfect for you! If elected, Obama will make this country weaker and more vulnerable. He will kill our already struggling economy. McCain and Palin represent the strength we need. Obama says,”change, change, change.” If he’s elected all you libs will be screaming, “change it back, change it back”! Give me a break. Go hug a tree. I’ll ride the lightning.

  69. Duncan Chapman said

    Maz, right-wing folk like Palin (she’s a Pentecostal Christian, which is about as far right as you can get) – and some of our fellow bloggers – would like an American “health plan” that works something like this starting before birth… Don’t teach sex-ed in schools (the only place some kids get ANY education of ANY kind); when a girl gets pregnant, force her to have the baby (even if she was raped); cut government programs that would help the parent(s) and child survive; and then send them out into the world with a pat on the back and the encouraging words, “you’re on your own” (even though these are typically the people who can least afford health care). Jesus said we should take care of the least of us; somehow I don’t think this approach fits in with His instructions. He didn’t say how we should do it (I doubt he cares), He just said to do it!

  70. Duncan Chapman said

    Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Considering the mess we’re in from the last 7 years (economy, war, etc.), I’ll take my chances with some kind, any kind of “change”.

  71. Tripp said

    I can’t believe all you people keep comparing this ticket with the Bush Administration. They hardly even mentioned the current administration during the RNC. Did you see all the crazies trying to crash the convention? Where were the conservatives during your party? You can say all you want, but the democrats are nervous…very nervous. As well they should be. My friend John the Wiccan is surprisingly quiet. I’ll bet he’s gonna vote for McCain too.

  72. Tripp said

    Conservatives finally have a candidate they can get excited about.

    Here are my picks to round out the cabinet:

    Secretary of State: Chuck Norris
    Secretary of Defense: Dogg the Bounty Hunter
    Director of Homeland Security: Ted Nugent
    Attorney General and Media Relations: Toby Keith

  73. Maz said

    Duncan: I believe the only sex education a ‘child’ should get is to say ‘No’ to it. Ofcourse in our day and age that’s easier said than done, but there are many kids that do, and there is a movement in the Church Youth where they are wearing rings to signify they will not have sex until they marry. Also, having sex more than once opens up the floodgates for sexually transmitted diseases including HIV.

    The Christian values of waiting till you marry are sound, there wouldn’t be so many single parents out there struggling to bring up a child on their own, (mainly girls).
    If a girl is raped, she should have the best psychological and spiritual councelling going, for the sake of the unborn child who’s life hangs in the balance, she should get all the help she needs, and if she doesn’t want the child after it is born, then someone who can’t have children could adopt. I know this isn’t ideal, but the unborn should always be given the right to live once it is conceived. Abortion should only be at the last resort if a woman is in danger of losing her own life.

  74. Maz said

    I’d just like to add that there is a man on Christian TV that was a result of a rape, and he thanks God that his mother did not have him aborted. God can bring good things out of evil.

  75. Kash said

    I think Tripp has been watching too much Spike TV. THe reason democrats keep comparing the ticket to the Bush Administration is because McCain agrees with Bush 90% of the time. For many of us, the past 8 years have been quite difficult financially, so obviously we are hoping for a leader that will take us in a very different direction as a country, not just a little different direction. As for why the “left” doesn’t mention 9/11 all of the time: I wish they would talk more about it. As in talk about the findings of the 9/11 commission on intelligence failures in Bush’s administration to take the Al-Qaeda threats seriously until AFTER they had blown up the towers. I worry that we haven’t learned our lesson, that we have allowed ourselves to become distracted by the Iraq war. I feel much less safe as a nation now that I did in 2001, when we had a chance to rally the world around us. Instead we essentially told told them all to go to you-know-where, that is was our way or the highway. Obama and Biden, in my opinion, will make us safer by returning us to part of the power of the world, rather than trying to dominate the world with our power.

  76. Tripp said

    Haha…that’s pretty funny, Kash.

    It just blows my mind that people think that Obama is more qualified to lead us into the next 4 years with all the global problems we face as a nation. You really think Putin is going to take Obama more seriously than he would McCain?

    I would like someone to explain to me why Obama is more qualified for this position than McCain. How in the world can people think that Obama/Biden is a better choice than McCain/Palin? I just cannot understand it at all.

  77. Kash said

    Thanks for getting my joke! Honestly, Tripp, it’s not about experience for me. I neither vote for Obama or against McCain based on experience. Call me deluded, but I trust that Obama really cares about the people in this nation, not just about some abstract concept of patriotism. I think from his history of choices (to work in south Chicago, then to be a civil rights attorney rather than a corporate type) he wants to make this country a better place for common folks. Its not that I don’t think McCain is a good guy or a nice guy (he obviously is both), but I think he is too tied to old ways of looking at the world. He is still steeped in the dynamic of “us” versus “them” from both the culture clashes of the 60s and the Cold War. I think we as a nation and as a world are trying to move beyond that, into new era with new challenges that will take new ways of thinking. For instance, energy independence is not only an American problem, but a world wide problem. The days when the US could go it alone and still succeed and continue to improve their citizens’ quality of life are over. I just think McCain doesn’t “get” that, and I think Obama and Biden do.

    I don’t expect you to agree, but do try to understand that those of us who support Obama are not out to undermine the United States. We actually beleive that Obama will be better for the United States, which we love just as much as our Republican counterparts.

  78. Tripp said

    Whatever you say there, Kash. Guess we’ll just have to disagree.

  79. randy said

    Praise the Lord folks seems there is much dissension among the people of this country thus we are in trouble do we not understand that the greatest tactics of the enemy is to divide and conquer the thief cometh not but to kill steal and to distory. let me say a women in the whitehouse? is there any biblical reason why not? did not God use women in the word of God? did not God use Debra to judge isreal? gal. 3-28 for there is niether jew nor greek, there is niether bond nor free, there is niether male nor female:for ye are all one in Jesus Christ we need to understand one thing that we were created by God to do his will in this life and all that is said ‘or done in this life it should Glorify God!i cant honestly say that i am a member of any party but am a member of the house of God and if and when i vote it will be for the one that hold a high standard of liveing according to the word of God and someone that will take this country in a direction that will glorify God! not somebody that will succumb to the will of the special intrest groups such as homosexuals and globalist anti Christ groups or any body that promotes immorality and hold socialist veiws and trys to undermine the will of the people or any body that will not support our constitutional RIGHTS as free and God fearing people!the bible says not to be partakers with them in there evil deeds as a child of God i have no choice but to vote for someone that holds at least close to the same morals and values as i feel will glorify God! and i hate to disapoint a lot of you but oboma and mcain are both GLOBALISTS!!!!!!! wake up AMERICA! its time we come together in the fear of God and get on our faces in prayer for our country! time is running out God the LORD JESUS is soon to return it is time to repent and seek his face and turn from our wicked ways then will we here from heaven God bless seeking the will of God for this country and the days ahead yours in Christ Randy.

  80. randy said

    PS folks stop and think do you know none of these candidates wrote any of there own speaches we have yet to hear from the hearts of these people this should tell us that they are following the will of someone else they are telling us things that they think we want to hear so we will vote for there party! very SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  81. Maz said

    Randy: Great posts! It is Wake Up time for all of us…..but how many will hear the alarm!

  82. Kash said

    Just curious, Randy, but what exactly do you mean when you use the term “globalist”?

  83. John said

    Randy, they work in government. They can’t help being shifty.

    Tripp, I[who have been known to hug trees…really[grin].] have been silent on this issue for two main reasons; which are A. We have all been busier in various ways due to all of these hurricanes AND because we still have crops and stock to tend to[you will always tend to hear less from me throughout the Summer and early Autumn[which is why you’ve been hearing more from Ferox lately]; and B.Odd as it may sound, but American government and it’s presidents don’t seem to have a very big effect on us way out here. Only at work or when in the larger towns do I really seem to feel any effects. As it it here at home, aside from a few things like this computer at my parents place, it may as well be year 2000…1995…1985…1955…1900..
    It’s almost like being in Puerto Rico. It may be American soil, but it’s not America. I actually don’t know who to bother voting for this year. I don’t trust any of them. I was interested in Hillary Clinton for a time, she didn’t seem any more evil than anyone else that we had to choose from.

  84. randy said

    What do i mean By globalist. By that i mean the are all working to bring down the soverienty of the u.s.a. and want to bring about a one world government,bring forth the antichrist and the end of time. and they are all members of the (CFR) and other organizations who want a one world order.

  85. Maz said

    Have any of you heard of a man named Barry Smith, he knows a lot about globalisation and the One World Government? Also a One World Religion to go along with it.

  86. Barney said

    You guys make sure to have your tin foil hats on when you’re typing.

  87. Maz said

    I should actually say that he is the late Barry Smith, but you can still go onto his website for information.

  88. F. L. A. said

    A one world government/order and religion?
    You mean, like Christianity is trying to do?

    Randy, is not the bringing the Antichrist into power and rule exactly what you as a Christian would want, as it would be the beginning steps into what would eventually lead into Armageddon and the Second Coming of Jesus?

  89. Maz said

    F.L.A: No, not like Christianity is trying to do…which it isn’t.
    One day soon we will be much loved subjects of a King who gave His life for us to bring us into His Kingdom and into His Family.

  90. F. L. A. said

    Oh no?
    What about all of that effort to try and turn everyone in this world into a Christian?
    To try and wipe from existence all that is deemed non-Christian?
    What about trying to turn world governments into Christian theocracies?
    What about the great efforts devoted to trying to teach creationism/intelligent design in all of the public school systems?

    Some Christian religious fanatics go on and on about how they think that there is a huge satanic or “new age” movement devoted to making the entire planet into a non-Christian world, populated by people as non-Christian as themselves, and yet….
    At the very same time these very Christian fanatics are trying to do THE VERY SAME THING, save, from the angle of a “true believer”, born again Christian.
    But then, perhaps this behavior is only acceptable when it comes from Christians, Hmmmmmm?
    If this is not the case,then perhaps someone could explain why.

  91. Kash said

    Honestly Randy, you really believe that? By your own quote (“gal. 3-28 for there is neither jew nor greek, there is niether bound nor free, there is niether male nor female:for ye are all one in Jesus Christ”) it is obvious that as Christians we SHOULD be concerned about the whole world and not just the USA. Since when is trying to make the world a better place translate to trying to make “one world government” or undermine the sovereignty of the United States? This tendency for people to try and fit current affairs into Revelations never fails to amaze me. For 2000 years certain groups of fear-mongerers have tried to get everybody to give up on humanity under the guise of “the end times are coming!! the end times are coming!!” Christ will return in HIs own good time. IN the meantime, we are supposed to be working for his Kingdom, not secretly hoping for mass mayhem and acting like the eventual return of Christ gives us an excuse to not work for “His will be done, on earth as it is in heaven”. Here’s a quote for Randy: Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is’, or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:20-21

    Now, we can debate who will do the best job in the White House without calling for Armageddon, can’t we?

  92. Maz said

    F.L.A: You don’t understand. It’s not a matter of ‘trying to turn everyone into a Christian.’
    We can’t turn anyone into anything. God wants people to come to Him and recognise that He is their Creator God, their Father, who loves them, and who sent His Beloved Son Jesus to die for them so that they could spend eternity with Him. He has bought us with His own blood.
    Anything that goes against His love and His will to save mankind is obviously not good for us and He will destroy what will lead us to a lost eternity.

    World governments would do a lot better if they had real true Christian leaders, those that live for Christ and not for themselves.
    And what is wrong in teaching the truth about our origins instead of the lies of evolution….and ofcourse I know you won’t agree with that!

    There is a move by the devil himself to keep people from knowing the truth and knowing God as their Father. He hates God and he hates Jesus, and he wants the whole world to follow and worship him. That is what Satan has always wanted. He wants to be in Gods place…..stupid thing that he is.

    Christianity is not just another religion trying to dominate the world…..the true and only God just wants everyone to know He is God, the Only true God, and His Son is the Only Savior of the world. Every other religion is a pathway of decception away from the truth. And as dogmatic as that sounds, it is the truth.

  93. F. L. A. said

    RrrrrIiiiiiiiiiigggghhhttttttt.

  94. Maz said

    F.L.A: It’s as clear as mud to you isn’t it?

  95. Kash said

    Christianity may not be just another religion trying to dominate the world, Maz, but you have to admit a lot of people in history have tried to dominate the world in the name of Christianity. That’s the problem with joining government and religion.

  96. Mike S said

    Religion and Government can not be separated. It’s impossible. As long as people in power believe in their religions (and yes even atheism has their own forms of religion, whether it is materialism, existentialism or whatever), these beliefs (or lack thereof) influence their worldviews and therefore, they make decisions based upon what they believe to be right and wrong.

    Some people (and yes even many who have “called themselves” Christians) are so power hungry and selfish that in order to gain power over others they will miss use the Christian belief system to get their way. Even Hitler did this.

    Study any government and you will find a belief system that is driving it. Religion and Government will never be separated.

  97. F. L. A. said

    Unlike your understanding of history and the Evolutionary and Natural Sciences, I understand perfectly Maz. I would have rather you accused me or reading too many books by Hal Lindsey and Bob Larson that to have gotten the answer you gave.
    I am with Kash and Mr.Sears.

  98. randy said

    F.L.Ain responce to your question no not like christians are trying to do but like.GOD THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS TRYING TO DO through his people as he said we were the light of the world by setting the example and one day it will be that way when Christ comes back when the 1,ooo year millinial rein takes place and we Gods people will rule and rein with Christ. agin we are Gods workmanship no he ours we were created to glorify God,not just a few people but all humanity, the word of God said that he was not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance, UNDERSTAND THE WORD ALL!!!! that means people in power or government if you will it means everybody God is not A RESPECTER OF PERSONS! AND NO! bringing in the antichrist is not what i want what i want is for Gods will to be done in his time it will come to pass but the. longer we have the more people we may be able to reach for Christ the bible says for us to work while it is day for the night cometh when no man can work! that is why we are so concerned about who is in the white house and the course that this country takes, because determining who gets in there our rights of free speech and freedom of religon could be in jeopardy.God Bless you Randy

  99. ADB said

    This goes back a few posts, but regarding the candidates using speechwriters, that is hardly new. It’s been years since candidates regularly wrote their own addresses. Reagan was a great speaker, and some of his best ones were written by Peggy Noonan.

  100. randy said

    Kash: in response to your statment, can i ask a question? what does GAL:3:28 have to do with the statement that you made please help me to understand your reasoning and i am sorry if you misunderstood what i said when i quoted GAL:3:28 i was referring to God not making a differance in a man or a women in the whitehouse i beleive either one can be used equally well if lead of God,and is in the will of the Lord. What makes you think that i am only concerned about the USA, do you not understand that most of the evangelism for Christ comes out of the USA and yes we are concerned who will lead this country because it very well could determine if and when we might be able to continue to evangelize the world, and who said i have given up on humanity? and who said i was hoping for mass mayhem? what about what i have said that you do not understand? and the scripture you gave is good and true but we need to go on and read the rest of the scripture you do err not noing the scriptures! the Lord let his diciples know that even as it was in the days of no,e and even as it was in the days of lot and sodom so shall it be in the day that the Lord comes back he also said that if the goodman of the house new what hour the thief would come he wold not have suffered his house to be broken up he said watch therefore did he not also set the watchman on the wall to sound the alarm mark thirteen and thirtytwo thru thirtyseventells us to watch and the Lord gave us a sign of his comming but i could go on and on but it seems you have made up your mind! the bible said the god of this world has blinded there eyes that they could not see there are to many people passing themselves off as christian that are supporting ungodlyness but they to shall be judged with the unbeleiveing we need to be careful as to how we walk before the LORD,and i might add offences must come but WOE!!! unto that man by which it comes. the bible also said mark them that cause division among you,lets be careful when we speak off Gods word and how we preceive it or undersand else how will we know how to walk before him lets do all to the glory of God wether it be wittnessing to others or even voting for president let it all be to the glory of God!!! in my oppion we do not have a candidate personaly i would have prefered ron paul hes not a member of the (cfr)if he is not on the ballet i will probably write him in i must vote my heart and let the will of the Lord be done GOD BLESS YOU i am praying for you randy. PS and know we probably wont and cant convence everybody to live for God JESUS CHRIST himself could not thats the reason he said not to cast your pearls before the swine nor give that which is holy unto the dogs GOD BLESS good night.

  101. Stanley said

    If McCain/Palin gets elected, we’re going to need all the power God’s got to keep us afloat.

    Jim Grobe for President!

  102. Barney said

    Randy, they have these things now called paragraphs. The paragraphs are supposed to make it easier for folks to read the stuff that we write. I think that they (the paragraphs) are to be used in conjunction with punctuation and grammar.

    best,
    Barney

  103. Maz said

    Kash #95: There has been a lot done in the ‘name’ of Christianity that was not of the Lords doing. The Roman Catholic Church burnt people at the stake if they did not turn from their protestant faith and become Catholics. That appears to be Christian against Christian, and yet the Roman Catholic Church at the time was anything but true Christianity. They ruled by fear and oppression.
    Not everyone that calls themselves ‘Christian’ is a true follower of Jesus Christ, so blackening the true with the same brush as the false is not being fair and right.

    There are many other religions that are far more violent and oppressive than you claim Christianity is, do you have the same feelings against them? Probably….but true Christianity is showing Christs love and living peacably in this world, telling the lost that He loves them more than anything, and this love was shown on the cross of Calvary. What other religion has a Savior like that? What other religion has a God that would come and die for them?

  104. Maz said

    Barney: I never thought I would agree with you about anything, but I agree with your post #103.

    Randy: It would be a lot easier for people to read if you could use punctuation in your posts. 🙂

  105. randy said

    Barney: sorry for my grammer. please foregive me. randy

  106. Tripp said

    Stanley – Re: comment 101

    I think you may be onto something. I’ll support you nominating Coach Grobe on one condition…

    Coah Jerry Moore as his VP running mate!

  107. Kash said

    Maz, Randy, and others,

    Yes, I know that evil has been done in the name of many religions. I was simply making the point that just because we elect a “Christian” leader there is no guarantee evil won’t be done. I happen to be a Christian, and I don’t blame Christianity for the evil that is done in its name, I blame fallen, power-hungry humanity. Christianity eschews worldly power, so it is difficult if not impossible to be entirely consistent with Christ if you are in a position of power. But we all make compromises every day…sins of ommission, at the very least (see James 4:17).

    Randy: it is hard to respond to your post, due to the aforementioned lack of coherent flow without punctuation. However, I think your gist is that if I don’t believe that the world is definitely going to end any day now, I am somehow not a true believer. Also, I have read a great deal of the Bible, and nowhere in it do I read that I am supposed to go around expecting the sky to fall at any moment. Also, what many of those who believe in dispensationalism (a la Scofield) seem to forget is that there are other interpretations of the end times that have been around a lot longer. I’m not saying I don’t believe that Jesus is going to return: the Bible is very clear that He is. What is open to interpretation is how, when, and whether there will really be a rapture as described most recently by LeHaye and Jenkins. I don’t want to get into an eschatological battle with you, because I think Jesus will come back when and how He wants, regardless of what you and I believe about it. My driving force for trying to bring people to a saving knowledge of Christ has more to do with love, and wanting them to experience the saving love of Christ, than trying to scare them into it. Yes, we should all be afraid of judgement if we do not believe in Christ, but the truth of the matter is that fear is a temporary motivator at best and not a good way to get people to actually repent and change the way the live.

    And finally, I am not sure I agree that “most of the evangelism comes from the USA.” Maybe most of the money. But in Africa and the east, there are many native evangelists doing a great job of speaking to their people. One of the mistakes Western evangelists have made in the past was trying to Westernize the East, rather than Christianize the east. Many mission minded organizations are trying to correct this failure, with marvelous results.

  108. Maz said

    ”For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present age, LOOKING FOR THAT BLESSED HOPE AND THE GLORIOUS APPEARING of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to Himself a people of His own, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man dispise you.” Titus 2 v 11-15.

    I agree Kash, it would be difficult for any true born-again Christian to be a leader in any government….when he has so many around him that wouldn’t want to live that way.

  109. Mike S. said

    Go Deacs!!

  110. ADB said

    Regarding evangelism, unless I am badly mistaken, South Korea now sends out far more missionaries each year than the US.

  111. Stanley said

    Evangelism is self-righteous.

  112. Maz said

    Stanley: Can you explain your statement please.

  113. Mike S. said

    So Stanley
    This is evangelism:
    I am a wretched sinner unworthy of having a relationship with God BUT because of His great love, mercy, and grace, He gave His Son as a sacrifice for me and (not by any “righteousness” of my own, but) soley based on the righteousness of Jesus Christ, He saved me and gave me eternal life.

    How is that “Self-Righteous”?

  114. Mike S. said

    For clarity: Eveangelism is sharing the above about Christ and passing on that this same offer is available to every single soul in the world!!

  115. Maz said

    Stanley: The above posts + ”Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me,I once was lost but now I’m found, was blind but now I see”.

    It is all to do with Gods grace through Jesus, not of anything we have done or anything we are. We are nothing without Christ. Evangelism is sharing that message with others who need Him.

  116. Mike S. said

    That’s right. “Just a begger showing another begger where to find bread”. Maybe Stan thinks it’s an ego thing? Until you experience that “Amazing Grace”, it’s hard to understand. It was for me.

  117. Maz said

    Stanley: I still don’t feel I deserve anything Jesus did or does for me, His love to me is priceless.
    The message we share is not ours it is His. All He is saying to you today is ”I love you.” I sometimes wonder how people can reject such a love like His.

  118. Stanley said

    Jesus isn’t coming to anybody, you are. You and your cohorts are saying “I know what is best for you.” Christianity, as a personal choice isn’t self-righteous, but when you tell others that your personal beliefs are the right and only way…

  119. F. L. A. said

    Randy, are you, like, REALLY excited when you type your posts? It reads as if you have just chugged three gallons of coffee, or something.

    Maz, your post#103 sounds odd when one considers that within the “understanding the World of Wicca and more” site you make posts advocating the burning of books,artifacts, and the destruction of cultures deemed “non-Christian”[Odd how many “true Christians” have their own personal yet conflicting requirements for this label.].There is a grim word for the annihilation of cultures and the people who supported them. It’s “genocide”.
    How many religions can you name which are more violent and oppressive than Christianity that are NOT related to Christianity?

    Stanley, Televangelism is rife with self-righteousness[and greed, and..] but the kind of evangelism that is done by, say, the Maz Hermans of the world, is something deeper. These men and women have had their lives touched by something magickal straight from the divine, and the experience “lifted them up” emotionally and spiritually in what was for them the best possible way/ways.They want everyone in the world to have such an experience, and this, combined with the threat of eternal damnation and “death” in Hell, as opposed to the promise of eternal peace, bliss, and “life” in Heaven makes them all the more eager to try and evangelize.
    I may be wrong.

  120. F. L. A. said

    Of course there are a goodly number which ARE self-righteous and very annoying to those who have expressed a lack of interest in the theology. It is easy with practice to recognize and differenciate the two types.

  121. Maz said

    Stanley: Jesus told us to ”Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” So we go. He saved us by His grace, now we want others to know that grace and forgiveness He gave us. Can you tell me what is wrong with that?

    JESUS SAID, ”I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father but by me.”

    You either believe what Jesus said or you don’t.

  122. Mike S. said

    Well put F.L.A. You are oh so close to the kingdom!!

    Stanley, by saying that Christians are wrong (or self righteous) to say that it is the only way, are you not claiming to have a higher knowledge, thus have a self righteousness of your own?

    Ever heard of the parable of the blind men and the elephant? The person telling the story claims to see the whole picture, and yet the reason he is telling the story is to prove that no one can see the whole picture. Christianity is either right or it’s wrong. There is no middle ground where it can be partly right.

  123. Maz said

    F.L.A: Genocide has nothing to do with burning books.

    And let me give you a few clues to some religions that use fear.

    Think about those who blow themselves up and everyone else who is in their vacinity.
    Think about those in Rome.
    Think about those in darkest Africa.
    Think about the cults.
    Think about Waco.
    Think about Guyana.

    Can you name me one religion that offers a loving Savior?
    There are those who believe they have to pay for their sins and get reincarnated to live life over and over again until they might get a chance to go to……….
    But our God paid the price for us………..what more can He do, for you to accept Him?

  124. Mike S. said

    Stanley
    If you were in a room that had odorless lethal gas spewing into the room, would it be self righteous of me to tell you about it? Even if you thought I had self righteous motives and did not believe me and I continued to warn you, in the end, would you not die from the gas just because you did not believe me? Don’t you think it’s important to really look into what the real truth is?

  125. randy said

    Kash: are you telling me that we have to sin every day? please give me scripture,and verse if you can.Know we are not perfect, and yes we make misstakes becaue of our flesh,(bro. paul made the statement that he had to die every day.) what was he saying, he was saying that he had to bring his flesh under subjection every day, but to say that we sin every day or that we have to sin every day is an error. The bible teaches me that if we walk in the spirit we will not fullfill the lust of the flesh. the bible also teaches that there hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. sorry for my printing and punctuations, and if thats the only faults i have i’m doing pretty good, huah!of course there not ,i have to talk to the Lord about them regularly (my faults i mean.) agin what about what i said do you not undersand? where did i say the world was going to come to an end any day? where did i mention that the bible taught that the sky was going to fall at any moment? no i do not beleive the bible teaches a rapture before tribulation, but can show you where it does teach after the tribulation of those days, then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven; yes it is good that your love is what motivates you to speak to people about Christ, this is well and good ,but don’t you think that knowing that we have a short time to work also ought too be a motivator? as (the bible teaches also). read your bible, and see what it teaches about the fear of the Lord. what is hard for you to understand about what i have said, do you just like to argue?please foregive my frustration. back to the whitehouse who ever gets in there may very well determine our religious freedoms in this country, even our outreach to others, and if you claim to be a child of God you will not support any candidate that supports ungodlyness.Thankyou for your time and i pray that God will open your undersanding. i want to say one more thing then i’m gone, except a man is born agin he cannot see or enter into the kingdom of heaven, not by good merrit. being born of the water and of the spirit, thus water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and enfilling of the Holly Ghost with the edification of seaking in other tongues as the spirit of the lord gives the utterance. God bless you good bye randy

  126. Maz said

    ”For sin shall NOT have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law but under grace? GOD FORBID. Know ye not that to whom you yield yourselves servents to obey, his servents you are whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obediencce to righteousness. But God be thanked, that whereas you were the servents of sin, you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered to you. Being, then, MADE FREE FROM SIN, you become the servents of righteousness.” Rom: 6 v 14-18.

  127. F. L. A. said

    Calm down Mr.Sears.
    Maz, yes it does, when the books are of a theological nature, are irreplaceable, and belong to the people who’s culture is being forcefully destroyed “in the name of God”.
    Would you like an example?
    As for the religious examples that you presented, I asked for some that were NOT related to Christianity. Catholics, Muslims, and Christian based cults like those that were in Waco and Guyana are all related to Christianity.
    Could you elaborate on the “cults” and those in darkest Africa, and how they compare in violence and oppression to say, the Catholic crusades or the European Dark Ages?
    And Maz, John and I have already been over the whole lack of need for a savior discussion.

  128. Maz said

    F.L.A: Great llllooooonnnnnggggggg sssiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhh!

    I’v had it for tonight. Going to bed…it’s 23.55!

  129. F. L. A. said

    [I should have patented that sigh.]
    That is alright Maz.
    There is always tomorrow.
    I have oceans of time…..

  130. randy said

    maz; you are absolutly correct. rom; 6;14-18 grace is not to be used for a liesence to sin! God bless you randy

  131. Maz said

    F.L.A: OK, some of those religions or cults may have a facade of Christianity but are not true Christianity. They are deceptions….and ofcourse a deception has greater power when it is nearest the truth.
    Most cults have a kind of connection to Christianity, like J.W’s, Mormons, Christedelphians, Christian Scientists, even the Children of God would call themselves Christian, but their fruits reveal that they are false cults, with doctrines that have been changed to fit their sometimes strange beliefs.
    Would you call Voodoo a religion? It is a belief system that rules by fear.

    As far as Moslems go, they do have a loose connection with Judaism, for they believe in Abraham as their father, but that is where it ends. They came originally from Ishmael, whereas the Jewish people came from the promised son Isaac. And Allah is not the same as Yahweh. He was one of many of their gods until they became monotheistic. And they also say in their Koran that Allah had no son, whereas Yahweh does have a Son. They accept that Jesus was a Prophet, but not the Son of God.

    But no other religion, fearful or not, has a sacrificial love based theology like Christianity. For God is love. And He showed that love on the cross.

  132. Stanley said

    The religion I’m making does.

  133. Kasha said

    Randy,
    I can’t follow your reasoning any more than you can follow mine. However, I’m pretty impressed if you can make it through a day without ever sinning at all.

  134. Mike S. said

    Stanley
    That’s very convenient for you. Make your own religion, create your own God. That way you can make your own morals relative to the way you want to live. But THAT wouldn’t be self-righteous now would it? 😮

  135. F. L. A. said

    That was funny Mr Sears[No really!][Huge sharp-toothed grin].
    Maz, the religion composed of African Folk Magick and beliefs that the “white man” has labeled as “Voodoo” is a religion, and is not based on the concept of fear any more than any other modern theological belief system.
    Here is a better one that you could have used; the theology of the ancient Aztecs.They ranked highest on the list of those who excelled in committing human sacrifice for theological based motivations.

    Stanley, would you tell us about your new theological belief system?
    Or where you just making a joke?

  136. Maz said

    F.L.A: Thanks for that example. Yes, they sacrificed people…..but our God sacrificed Himself….that is what I am talking about. No other religion has a God like ours.

  137. F. L. A. said

    Yes, and?
    If this is another reference to the topic of a savior and self-sacrifice then remember, it is not necessary in other religions.
    It would be like a Greek mentioning that Hermes has winged sandals and helmet to help him ziiip around on his various errands, which to the best of my knowledge is unique to him and him alone.

  138. Maz said

    F.L.A; and?………it is necessary for you, whether you believe it or not.

  139. Mike S. said

    F.L.A.
    It’s interesting how you refer to other religions as if they could all be true, which is reasonably impossible. If any other religion is true aside from Christianity, then Christianity is totally and complete false. If Christianity is true then all other religions are false. To believe anything in between is to throw reason out the window. However, in our relativistic and pluralistic, shallow thinking culture, there are many who will not think and research the truth deeply enough to realize this. They refuse to believe because their hearts are dark…

  140. Maz said

    Mike: Absolutely!

  141. Barney said

    Mike, you left out that all religions could be false. Was it Mark Twain who quipped “I don’t know what the true religion is, but I’m pretty sure my neighbor doesn’t have it”?

    I’m pretty sure all religions are false; that we are Christians for the same reason Muslims are Muslims.

    best,
    Barney

  142. Mike S. said

    Yeah, you’re right Barney. I forgot to mention that option. Although I totally disagree with your assessment of religions. While YOU may “call yourself” a Christian for the same reason a “Muslim is a Muslim”, I think you are presuming way too much when you say “we”. Let me tell you why a “real” Christian is a Christian. We are Christians because we believe and trust that Jesus Christ has paid the penalty for our sins on our behalf…PERIOD. That is far from the same reason that a Muslim is a Muslim. Just in case you wanted to know…

  143. F. L. A. said

    Mr.Sears, I would like to re-offer you post#58 on the
    “Understanding the World of Wicca and more” site. Hopefully it should satisfy your curiosity. If it does not, then we can go on from there, although if it does not then you may be too much like Maz to ever be satisfied, if you understand what I mean. If other theological belief systems were true, this would not mean that Christianity would HAVE to be entirely false, although you might have to change your perception of Deity.
    Reason?
    “Reason”?
    This is a difficult concept to apply in absolute terms within a concept like theology, would you not agree? You should be well aware of what most Atheist would probably say about a theist discussing “good reason” in conjunction with theological “truths”.

    Some of us refuse to believe wholly and blindly because we have discovered that your theological belief system cannot explain too many things. Perhaps you could be content that some of us skeptics believe as much as we do, and my heart is rather “dark”[I would have rather used the word “grim”.], although not as dark as some.
    You KNEW that I was a monster from the very beginning, terrible in form and hunger. Remember my full name? I gave it to you once upon a time.

  144. Stanley said

    Its a work in progress.

  145. F. L. A. said

    Most of them are, Stanley.
    As a Bright, I’m sure it is quite interesting. You’ll have to keep us all updated on it.

  146. Maz said

    It’s not a question of whether CHRISTIANITY is true (which it is), I mean, it has been corrupted into so many cults and sects, being ‘Christian’ means different things to different people. The question is, was Jesus Who He claimed to be?

    And another basic question: There is an absolute truth out there…….but everyone has to ask and find out Who, what or how did we come into existence? Or was it pure chance? Everyone has their own ‘truth’, but there can only be one Truth and everyone can’t possess it. (By that I mean not with their own false beliefs). They oppose each other.

    The Who is Yahweh God, the Great I AM, the Beginning and the End, the Creator of the Universe, born into this world as the Son, Jesus Christ, sacrificing Himself for our sin, and rose from the dead so we may have eternal life. Now He is seated at the right hand of God as a resurrected man, yet still the eternal Son. I don’t understand why anyone should resist or reject such a God. But they continue to, even with all that I and others have said over and over again.

  147. Mike S. said

    Actually, the Christian faith is entirely logical and reasonable when the Gospel is understood and accepted. The deeper the understanding, the more ALL THINGS begin to fit together and makes sense. That is one of the most wonderful things about the true Christian life. Although there remain “mysteries” of how and why God does certain things, yet still, in God’s ultimate providence and sovereignty, they all will work together to culminate into a perfect fulfillment where Christ will be exalted and every soul will proclaim that Jesus is Lord! Hallelujah!! Come Quickly!!

  148. Stanley said

    Christianity,

    Because resurrection is totally logical.

  149. Stanley said

    oops, wrong post

  150. It looks like we’ve sortof gotten off-topic here. Can we swing this ship back around?

    Here are a couple of articles to help:

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0908/Hillary_backers_come_to_defense_of_Palin.html

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51121

  151. Stanley said

    Right.

    The Palin pick is crazy!!

    Recant all your statements about Obama’s lack of experience, now Mr. McBush.

  152. Mike S. said

    Yeah just call her a “pig” right? You can’t tell me that Obama (or his campaign people) is (are) so dense that he (they) could not foresee that his pig comment would not be interpreted to be directed at Palin. If they are that dense then… hmmmmm…

  153. Stanley said

    I seem to recall a certain similar statement from Mr. McCain directed at a, one, Hillary Clinton.

  154. Mike S. said

    You miss my point. Either it was intentional (and they are lying that it was not) or they’re dense. Either way I guess that’s ok with you?

  155. Barney said

    Yeah, the lying, womanizer McCain, who dumped his crippled wife at her time of need to run off with his beautiful, rich mistress has every right to criticize Obama.

  156. Tripp said

    I suppose you would prefer Mr. “Innocent as the Drifting Snow” Bill Clinton.

    If that’s the issue that matters to you then you I shouldn’t even dignify it with a response.

  157. John said

    I don’t think that ANYONE thinks of Bill”but I didn’t inhale”,”I did not have sexual relations with that woman” Clinton as innocent in any way, Trip.
    I could never understand why Hillary stayed with him after that.

  158. Tripp said

    Watch this and give it some thought.

  159. F. L. A. said

    Touching, Tripp.

  160. abc's said

    Tripp

    My brother in law is in Iraq right now, and he feels differently.

  161. randy said

    Praise the Lord Folks; there is a lot of talk about mixing christianity and government, and a lot of people claiming to be christians that are agins’t it. tell me folks have we foregotten where this nation came from? a lot of people are down on mrs. palin because she has christian values, and hopefully strong christian views.let me say this, if she is for real i would rather have somebody like her in the whitehouse than somebody that supports ungodlyness, and doesn’t give a hoot about our rights as americans, is mccain and palin right for america? only time will tell. the bible tells us that you will know the tree by the fruit it bears. these are perilous times, and the bible teaches that evil men and saducers shall wax worse and worse. this country was founded on Christian values and even many of our laws in the founding days were from the bible, only in these latter years has it been that people in government has tried to take christianity out of our government, separation between church and state were did that come from, not our constitution. our bible teaches us to pray for our people in power ,that Gods will be done. God Bless, yours in Christ randy.

  162. Stanley said

    Should we outlaw shellfish?

  163. Stanley said

    My point is, do we outlaw all the stupid things it warns against or do you pick and choose what should be law and what shouldn’t? And how do you explain preemptive wars when you’re supposed to love your neighbor.

    Do you rule as Christians, or do you rule as tyrants claiming to be Christian? Do you take away individual right to show your power? I’d be terrified of a Christian theocracy. There’d be no room for reason or science or progressive modes of thought.

  164. Maz said

    Stanley: Actually shellfish aren’t healthy to eat. God knew what was good for us and what not.
    God only made laws in the OT for their good. And so today, many of them are still good for us. Adultery is still a sin, but we don’t go stoning people because they can be forgiven by Christ…..ofcourse you have to ask for it…or pay the consequences in your life (like King David did).

  165. randy said

    stanley; no we don’t outlaw shellfish, the bible teaches, all things are good and nothing to be refused if taken with thanksgiveing for it is sanctifide by the word of God, and prayer, No definitly not, we do not need a totalitarian government in the name of cristianity, even as we are headed now with the government we now have, christianity and government can work together as was proven in the word of God. people have the idea that christians are suposed to be passive, and never lift a finger to defend themselves, my bible teaches me if posible live peaceably with all men as much as lyeth within you, you cannot live peasably with all men they just won’t let you. thus war. if you can tell me, which comandment was given first thou shall not kill or utterly distroy? meaning to kill women, childern, animals, and all that the enemy possesed. the strong man of the house would not have suffered his house to be brokenup if he would have known what hour the thief commeth.the answers to all our questions are in the word of God if we can just except them. and in your apinion the bible teaches stupid things, there is nothing stupid about anythig the bible teaches! Gods ways are above our ways, and his thoughts are above our thoughts,we may not always understand his ways, but just remember he’s always right! all things work together for the good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. God Bless, yours in Christ randy

  166. Stanley said

    You know what is stupid?

    The bible outright disallows shellfish, but not slavery.

  167. Maz said

    Randy: There’s no law now against anything we eat, but there is such a thing as common sense. If we know a food is unhealthy we shouldn’t eat it and then pray for Divine protection. I know this isn’t what you were meaning but just wanted to make the point.

    Stanley: But not the kind of slavery where people were treated badly. This is not what the Bible teaches.

  168. Barney said

    Benevolent slave masters.

    Unreal.

    Sort of like the 6000 year old universe that Gov. Palin wants to teach our children instead of science.

  169. Stanley said

    Oh, its ok then…

  170. Anon said

    Stanley and Barney,

    There is a group of us Christians who have decided not to dignify your ridiculous comments with responses. We hope you enjoy your little tirades. We find them most amusing. The voters will decide. Nobody cares what you think.

  171. F. L. A. said

    Stanley and Barney, despite it’s rough beginnings, modern Christianity and it’s followers has evolved beyond this behavior.
    Only a minority of “Christians” would take advantage of such behavior, and not because they are “True Believers”, but because they are despicable people.
    Many theological belief systems have rules and stories that advocate slavery and other seemingly strange or obsolete moral and cultural guidelines, but they have evolved in such ways as well.

  172. Barney said

    Anon, your side claims that slavery was benevolent and I’m making ridiculous statements? Whatever.

    F.L.A., try to keep up, OK?

    McCain went off half cocked when he chose Palin. The best thing about her candidacy is the potential for Saturday Night Live and the Daily Show humor.

  173. Anon said

    Mum’s the word. We’ll see who laughs last.

  174. Tripp said

    Oh this should be fun. What a smart-a#% remark you just made towards F.L.A.

    Can’t believe they let you post on here Berney.

  175. randy said

    Maz; read the 14th chapter of the book of romans, if we fill that a food is not good for us, and have doubts we are not eating of faith, therefore if we eat it we are condemned already,because we are not eating of faith. the things we are told not to eat because they are not good for us, is this true, do we believe men,or God and his word. the bible teaches that man does not live by bread alone,but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. now the spirit speaketh expresly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which (believe) and know the truth.for every creature of God is good,and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. by eating the things people say are bad for us, we are exercising our faith. stanly and barny, you guys must be talking of old testement scriptures, i do not find reference to slaves in the new testement scriptures. maybe i have missed something help me out here. what do you mean by bonevelent slave masters? so you don’t want palin in there because she wants to have creation taught in our schools? have you forgotten who gave you the rights that you now have,and how this country was founded? and if you don’t know, let me inform you. the rights that you now enjoy were bought and paid for by the BLOOD of many of God fearing CHRISTIANS. even as Christ for our freedom and redemtion with his blood. what or how do you think this country got to be so great? because of our faith and beleifs in our LORD JESUS CHRIST. did you know that in the begining of this Great nation that we live in, even to become part of the union you had to teach creation and bible in their schools. so i suggest if you don’t beleive in our God the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and don’t want to support a GOD fearing government, (which i am not saying mccain and palin represent), i am sure that there are other countries that would wecome you with open arms, instead of you hanging around here trying to tear down what we beleive as CHRISTIANS.thats the very problem now, we have allowed people such as yourselves in our government and in our judicial system. yes we need to go back to the begining and repent as a nation. yours in Christ randy

  176. Maz said

    Randy: I use my faith to know what is good for me to eat. And doesn’t the Bible also say judge no one in what they eat or drink. It is according to our faith. Shell fish are high in toxins, pork is high in fat, there are good foods and bad foods, so I try to eat healthily which is what God would want for my body which is His temple. I could eat lots of cream cakes, pavlova and cheesecake which I love, and I could eat by faith……wouldn’t I love to!! but I have to use my commonsense aswell as my faith.

  177. Maz said

    I think we’ve got off the subject.

  178. Mike S said

    Barney
    Context, context, context. Something of which you seem to ignore quite conveniently. Slavery, in the Hebrew culture, was comparable to the employee/employer relationship today. Hebrew slaves had more rights and privileges than skilled tradesmen.

    In today’s terms, the Bible prohibits mistreatment and abuse of the employer/employee relationship. The Bible clearly denounces treatment comparable to the way Pharoah operated. Just in case you care to know/consider the proper context…

  179. Barney said

    You are rationalizing human slavery. Jeff Davis did that, too.

  180. Barney said

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to suggest that are pro slavery. I should have said that slavery in the Bible was probably just as bad as slavery anywhere else it exists.

  181. F. L. A. said

    Well Tripp, Barney is intitled to his opinions, as are we all.

    Keep up………….indeed[Snicker].

  182. Maz said

    F.L.A: But when he’s got it wrong he needs to be corrected. As we all are when you think we are wrong.

  183. Mike S said

    So, Barney, using your philosophy in the 2nd sentence of your post #180, and correctly applying the appropriate Biblical context to today’s culture, you are saying it is bad to have a business in which you hire employees. Is that too capitalistic for your socialistic belief system?

  184. randy said

    maz; forgive me if i sounded as if i were judging you, because that is not my intent.as i have already said rom:14th chapter. the bible teaches us that its not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.those things proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile a man.if you fill that some things are bad for you then, (Praise the Lord). i do not condemn you for not eating. myself i fell i can eat any thing i want as far as the meat subject goes, according to the scriptures, as long as i eat of faith and not of doubt.and pray over it, it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.(i’ll stick with the book .for in it we can never go wrong.)barny i see you are still triing to tear down the things of God! Be careful by your own words might you be condemed.

  185. F. L. A. said

    Maz, I agree, so have at it.
    In regards to what he said to me, I actually found Barneys comment more confusing than anything else.
    Barney, in what aspect did you believe that I had fallen behind in?
    Did you find my comment so foolish?
    Did I leave you feeling…….betrayed…in some way? That a Pagan thing like me would seem to “take sides” with the Christians?
    If so, then do realize that I am a horribly opinionated beast, that is more of a wild card in the game that is this website.
    And it was your turn[huge sharp-toothed grin].

  186. wes said

    Stanley says:
    “Do you rule as Christians, or do you rule as tyrants claiming to be Christian? Do you take away individual right to show your power? I’d be terrified of a Christian theocracy. There’d be no room for reason or science or progressive modes of thought.” {post #163}

    Let me see; Hmmm; If I am not mistaken the word “Christian” means Christ like. And if I read the intent of Stanley’s question(s) right he is basing his opinions of “Christians” not on a biblical perspective but on his observations of modern man’s ideas of Christianity. Stanley which of your individual rights would Christ himself take away from you if He were in the White House? Please sir, be specific. Sir you make the assertion that there would be no room for “reason or science or progressive modes of thought.” Now I do not mean to offend anyone but I am curious, can you back this statement with facts?

  187. randy said

    wes; good post

  188. wes said

    Just because some one claims the name of Christ does not in any way make them a part of the body or family of Christ. My bible teaches me to try the spirits to prove whether they be of GOD or not. History is packed with example after example of GOD’s name being claimed falsely. Am I saying that McCain and Palin are in this category? No; I am not. I do not personally enjoy the acquaintance of either of them, let alone know their lives and how they stand with GOD. I think it was posted somewhere above “only time will tell!”

  189. Stanley said

    Jesus thought that he was the only way. He isn’t. What happens to the people who’ve figured this out?

  190. Maz said

    Randy # 184. I understand what you’re saying, and if all those foods are ok for you then that’s fine. I agree with what Rom: 14 is saying.

  191. Maz said

    F.L.A #185. You are certainly a very interesting person! And I have been surprised more than once by your ‘taking sides’ with the Christians. You are not far from the Truth! 8)

  192. Maz said

    Stanley: What a bold statement….and how wrong you are! How do you come to that conclusion with a warped picture of Christianity? There will always be the counterfeit with the true, you can’t have one without the other. You are judging the true by looking at the counterfeit. Like judging the artistic work of Rembrandt by looking at a copy done by someone else.

    Jesus didn’t ‘think’ He was the only way….He knew Who He was, and knew why He was here.
    And what happens to those who think otherwise. I think you know the answer to that.

  193. Mike S said

    Stanley
    Ephesians 4:18
    They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.

    Romans 1:21
    For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

  194. Maz said

    Stanley: It seems to me that you have an axe to grind against Christianity for soe reaso and you just DON’T WANT to believe. As the scriptures say that Mike gave, you have hardened your heart against God. Why?

  195. Maz said

    ….’some reason’….mispelt.

  196. How do we keep managing to get off-topic here?

  197. Mike S. said

    Most people who say that it is intolerant to claim that Christ is the “only way”, do so because they think that Christians are pious and belligerent to claim that they know the truth and that others do not. What they don’t realize however, is that by making their case against such belief, they are presuming that they have a higher knowledge than the Christians, and that they are guilty of doing the exact same thing (making an intolerant truth claim themselves).

    The question I always ask is, “By what authority are you making such a claim?”… You usually figure out that it is based upon their own feelings and beliefs…

    Then I ask “What makes your beliefs/feelings more authoritative than mine? Which comes from a book written by over 40 authors over thousands of years, yet it still has one common theme, Jesus Christ.”

    I think I’ll bank on the authority of Jesus Christ Himself, who proved His Godhood, by rising from the dead! Yeah I know, some of you doubt that actually happened. See the scripture quotes above…

  198. Mike S. said

    Sorry Moderator, Can’t help but to respond to such things.

  199. wes said

    Welcome to TruthTalkLive.com!
    Today’s Issues, From a Biblical Perspective!

    Uhmm; Can any one show me in what chapter and verse the bible claims salvation without JESUS Christ? And while we may be veering a little astray of the chosen path; because of Ms. Palin’s claim to a Christian background, I do not believe we have lost sight of the way.

  200. Stanley said

    My hard heart is the will of God. You dare question it? Everything happens for a reason.

    Which is another reason I don’t think Jesus is God. If Gods will applies to everything, why did Jesus go around changing his own will?

  201. Maz said

    TruthTalk: Topics will automatically veer off when there are several issues involved apart from the prime subject.

  202. Stanley said

    Back on topic. I want a woman in the white house, just not a CRAZY one.

  203. Maz said

    Stanley: YOU have been given a FREE WILL by God, He does not(as some may claim) make people hard or soft, if He hardens a heart it is because it is hardened already. He would never stop anyone coming to salvation, especially when the price was so high, His Only begotten Son’s blood. YOU have a choice….so why not make it. Otherwise you are trying to blame your ignorance on God, and that is completely wrong.

  204. wes said

    Should Christians be excited about Sarah Palin? Personally, any time a modern politician claims Christianity I am forced to view them as I would the old door to door bible salesman.
    If Ms. Palin did say that she used to be pentecostal in faith, then maybe Christians should ask the question: “Has she renounced her Faith in lieu of her chosen profession?”

  205. wes said

    Post #203: Good point Maz.

  206. wes said

    Stanley; What makes you think Ms. Palin is crazy?

  207. Maz said

    The good test of a true Christian is their fruit.

  208. wes said

    And that brings us back to: “Time will tell.”

  209. Stanley said

    Shes a young earth creationist, so she is either completely removed from all information, or she is crazy.

    She wants to ban books.

    She thinks the invasion in Iraq is the work of God…

    SHES A YOUNG EARTH CREATIONIST.

    C’mon, do you need any other reason?

  210. Maz said

    Stanley: So she’s crazy because of what she believes? That’s not a very comprehensive list to base your decision on how you vote is it? Supposing science discovers one day that the earth is only several thousand years old? What then? They don’t know enough about Physics and how the Universe works at the moment to get a definitive answer.

  211. F. L. A. said

    Stanley, surely you realize that many people reading on this site are Young Earth Creationist Christians, so bringing up that as a negative example to help prove your point is a wasted effort, unless one is only interested in studying the responses.
    They see Mrs.Palin’s show of faith as an asset, not something to be troubled by. So if you want to discredit her, you are going to have to use a different method.
    Good luck.

  212. F. L. A. said

    Maz, in response to post#191, I am non-Christian, however this does not also mean that I am anti-Christian.

  213. Stanley said

    Yes they do, Maz. Those scientists or “experts” you tend to discredit are much smarter than you or me. You do know a “theory” is a verified hypothesis, not a shot in the dark, right?

    F.L.A, My point is that young earth creationists are ridiculous, and I’m trying to convey that.

  214. Mike S. said

    Really? I didn’t notice…

  215. Maz said

    F.L.A: You obviously havn’t heard the words of Jesus, ”He that is not with me is against me.”
    Are you for Him?

  216. Maz said

    Stanley: There are scientists that agree with a youth earth, ‘experts’ in their field, are they crazy?
    And a theory is not necessarily a fact. I think you need to consult the dictionary for the meanings of the words ‘theory’ and ‘hypothesis’.

  217. F. L. A. said

    I realize your point Stanley, but it is a wast of time to try and establish that HERE, at least on this topic. Wait a while, and eventually they shall have another show that concerns the Natural Sciences, of something related, and then,THEN, you can let your little light shine; And others will be there to help you.

    Maz, only in perhaps the most vague,liberal way, at least as commonly interpreted on this site. You should know that I do not follow such a dualistic, “purely good/purely evil” philosophy on these matters. I am for good sense and good things[As of now] but I am also somewhat insane, aggressive, bizarre, and I have a hunger for living meat that can never be fully satisfied, so I could never help but be but a most heretical ally to Christianity.

  218. Maz said

    F.L.A: I would be interested to know what is inbetween ‘purely good and purely evil’. Either something is good or it is evil. There is no middle road.

  219. Barney said

    Re: 183

    Mike, today employees aren’t beaten and are generally free to go as they desire. Are you saying that slaves weren’t beaten and held against their will?

    Slavery is the purest form of free market capitalism.

    I think Palin was a hasty, ill-made choice for Vice President and McCain may have lost the election.

  220. F. L. A. said

    I disagree[As you know I would].
    So, what are you?
    Purely good, or purely evil?
    I tend to think of myself as being roughly 3/5ths evil.

  221. Maz said

    F.L.A: Without Christ I would be sinful and my righteousness as filthy rags before God, so I would be in the purely evil category, but in Christ I am the righteousness of God which would be purely good.

  222. Barney said

    Re: 170,185

    F.L.A. You mean the advocacy of slavery isn’t as widespread today as it was at one time? Golly! Gee, THANKS!

    It looks like I’ll be voting Libertarian again! No woman in the White House until 2012 when Hillary runs as a Republican! You read it here first!

  223. F. L. A. said

    I had a feeling that you would say something like that, Maz.

    Barney, do you want to know what is stupid?
    Not being able to recognize when someone is genuinely trying to help you, or worse, being able to recognize it, and making said attempted helper feel unappreciated.
    A smart ass is still an ass, you know.

  224. Stanley said

    McCain is a sellout.

  225. randy said

    stanly; please read post 175: and please reply if you can with an inteligent answer please.sanley my heart is broken, and at this piont i fill so many things in my heart because of your statement. i fill sorry for you, greif,and pitty, and at the same time the Holy Ghost has given me compassion for you, after i read your post this morning i did not have time to reply to you, but stanly on my way to work, the Lord gave me a burden for you all i could do was weep before the Lord . in your apinion that may be a sign of weakness, i do not no! there was a time in my life when my heart was very hard, but God brought some events in my life that began to soften this old boys heart,and God gave me a whole different out look on life, and the way that i now view things especially his Word.i’m prayinng that God will do the same for you. the Lord loves you so much that he came down off of his throne in glory, and prepared himself a body that he might become the supream sacrifice,by the sheding of his blood, that we might have eternal life thru obediance to his word.i’m praying for you. yours in Christ randy

  226. Mike S said

    Barney
    No I am not saying that slaves were not beaten and held against their will. That was not the “Biblical Model” that I was referring to either. Just because the Bible records abuse does not mean it is condoned.

    You may refute the points that I make or agree with them but to totally ignore them as if you never read them does not advance the conversation, only frustrates it.

  227. Stanley said

    That’s sweet, Randy. Your heart needn’t break on my account, I’m just fine. There are a great number more important things to worry about.

    I’ve decided that I’m a theist. Although not in the conventional sense, at all. I’m thinking there is an intelligence and an energy to the world around us. Its not supernatural, and its not self-aware. Its hard to explain. Its definitely NOT the Judeo-Christian god, because I think its bigger than what is described in the Bible. B

    ut congrats, I now “believe” in God, only I’m calling it Gaia.

  228. Maz said

    Stanley: You are a soul needing God. That should be the most important thing in the world to you. But you just don’t realise it. It’s a wonderful thing that Randy is doing for you. God has given him a burden for you, that means He loves you…….beyond measure. That moves my heart. If we could convey in words how God feels for you we would, but I just pray that somehow He will break into your cold, hard and very skeptic heart and reveal His deep and eternal love for you. Don’t treat it lightly.

    How can ‘an intelligence and an energy’ not be supernatural? Is it physical? Mental?
    Gaia is mother earth which New Agers believe in, just another false god. Why won’t you seek out the Truth? Wouldn’t you REALLY like to know?

  229. Mike S. said

    Stanley
    What you have is a “pot luck”, or “Buffet” god. Hmm, let’s see, I like this so I’ll believe this about god, but no, I don’t like that, so I’m not believing that. That is essentially the “new age” god of today. The make your own, “Burger King”, have it your way god. Nothing new under the sun though. I don’t know why they call it “new age” because it’s not new. Mankind has been doing it for thousands of years. Thomas Jefferson did the same thing. Do you have your own customized Bible too? Hey I bet Oprah and Eckhart Tolle have one of those “cut & paste” bibles.

    At some point and time you will come to know the truth. Actually, you already know it, deep down, the question is, will you submit yourself to it or continue to suppress it?

  230. Barney said

    Re: 226

    Mike, so help me out here. What I hear you saying is that all slavery is bad except for your religion’s slavery which was benign.

    Do I have it?

  231. Mike S. said

    I don’t have time to give a history/culture lesson here but yes, if you were to apply the “Hebrew” (which is not my religion by the way) terms and guidelines for “slavery” back in the days just after Christ’s time, they would be somewhat comparable to the employee/employer relationship today. Especially where you have live in arrangements. For example in my younger years, I was an Apartment Complex Manager. I was provided my place to live as part of my pay. However, “slaves” had much better benefits in the Hebrew culture that many of us have today.

    And the Biblical guidelines were:

    Ephesians 6:9
    And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

    Colossians 4:1
    Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

    You can simply replace the word “master” with “employer” and “slave” with “employee” and you have applicable comparison to today’s culture.

  232. Barney said

    I don’t have time to give a lesson in basic human rights or modern labor law, but what you are describing is not how we define employer/employee relationships in the Twenty-First Century.

    You are saying that these slaves couldn’t work for one master and then move on to another, better master, and the masters could physically restrain them? That’s not how employers and employees relationships work, Mike.

    Why does the Bible seem to tell that we could beat our slaves, but not to death? Or, that as long as they survived a day or two after we beat them before they died we were not held responsible?

    Sounds like you just don’t want to admit that slavery was just as bad under a Hebrew lash in one hundred BC as under a Christian lash in the nineteenth century.

    Maybe I’m just too liberal to understand the concept of a gentle slavemaster.

    Either way, Palin was a poor choice and may be indicative of McCheater’s future poor choices.

  233. Stanley said

    My God is real, your God is a tool for the church to use you. I’ve searched for the true God, where as you were told what to think from birth. Maybe if you cared about what is true as opposed to what is popular, you’d find the truth yourself, but we all know that isn’t going to happen. I see the way things are, you will be able to also, but you have to get out of your paradigm.

  234. F. L. A. said

    Maz, you almost make Gaia sound like a creation of “New Agers”.
    She is Greek, you know.
    “The Earth was the first mother, and her name was Gaia.”,pronounced correctly as “Gee-o”.
    Her and Uranus.

    The “New Agers” simply gave her a revival.

  235. Maz said

    F.L.A: It’s all the same to me…..false gods.

    Barney: #232. Care to give us scriptures for this?

  236. F. L. A. said

    We know Maz, we know.

  237. Mike S. said

    Stanley, oh how wrong you are dude. I was NOT told to think since birth. As a matter of fact I did not come into faith until the age of 38, as a thinking, reasoning, man. My new paradigm… has been shaped by Christ transforming me from the inside out for the past 8 years. Glory Halelujah for that! And by the way… it is becoming less and less popular to hold Christian beliefs! The road seems to be getting narrower. Hmm. I wonder who said that?

  238. Barney said

    Maz, say please, and I’ll consider it.

  239. F. L. A. said

    When the Old Testament Hebrew warring tribes like those led by Moses murdered all but the virgin females of the losers, and then distributed them out to the men as spoils of war to be turned into”wives”, could they not have been considered slaves? Think of it from their perspective, watching your brothers, uncles, grandfathers, fathers, and new boy friends all being slaughtered, and then being kept by the murderers against your will to be used for sex, your first experience with physical affection with one of these brutes.
    I apologize for getting off topic, but I wanted your opinion on this Mr.Sears, or Maz, or…..anyone.

  240. Mike S. said

    What you are referring to F.L.A. is a record of the Israelites disobeying God. They were supposed to kill all of them. Now this is where most people have a serious problem. Why would God command the killing of women and children? I agree that this is a tough one to understand from our human and current culture perspective. There are several things going on here. One is the depravity of the people and the entire culture. This was a culture that called for child sacrifices and was rotten to the core. And this was the only way to cleanse the culture. Kind of like cancer. You can’t leave a trace or it will grow back. Another thing to think about, is that children who are truly innocent (before reaching the age of accountability so to speak) are really better off in eternity with God, than they are enduring life in this broken world on earth. And lastly, if God is really who He says He is, all knowing, all powerful, perfect and holy, then who are we to judge when we are none of that? We do not have the “whole picture” as He does so there is no way that we can judge.

    What we also have to remember is that we are reading the Bible through our current cultural lenses (or paradigm as Stanley stated). What has to be done is to understand the culture and circumstances surrounding the history. Let me give you an example. In our culture, here in America, the commands from Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount to “love your enemies” and “turn your cheek”, are not so hard to understand, and many of us embrace such commands. But in Middle Eastern culture, they think that is totally crazy. While in Middle Eastern culture, the commands that if you even look at another women with lust is a sin is widely accepted (just observe their women’s attire), yet here in America you get, “Man you’re wacko”, that’s impossible”.

    You really have to take off your cultural blinders to understand the context.

  241. Stanley said

    So, what he means to say is that the bible is unreliable because it doesn’t apply to today’s society.

  242. Stanley said

    I’m going to write a book over the weekend about my new religion, hope you like it.

  243. Maz said

    Mike #240: Good post. Absolutely right. We don’t see sin and depravity like God does. He is Holy and True and these people were rotten to the core. Their children would have grown up just like them. So killing the children in some sense was merciful for them. But I doubt whether you will see it that way.

    Stanley: You have no idea what you are taking about. I know the Bible says that the devil blinds the minds of those who do not believe, but what experiences have you had in your life to bring you to such rediculous notions?

    It’s nothing to do with application, it is to do with culture, we don’t see things the way they did then. The Bible is reliable….my life is based on it’s teachings.

    Barney: Are you stalling because you have no answer? If it makes you feel any better I would like some scriptures to back up what you said…..PLEASE.

  244. Maz said

    Mike: Sorry, I meant that last line for Ferox.

  245. Barney said

    Now we have benevolent slavery AND merciful genocide!

    Unreal.

    Exodus 21:20-21 “And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property].”

  246. Stanley said

    Your God is arrogant, my God is perfect. She doesn’t suffer human emotion, because she is greater than it.

  247. Maz said

    Barney: That does not give a master licence to hit their slave, they are certainly punished if it causes their death.

    Stanley: A god without emotion cannot love. It cannot possibly feel for it’s subjects, therefore it cannot relate to us as feeling beings.

  248. Barney said

    Maz, that’s not what it says. It says if the slave lingers for a day or two after being beaten before he dies then master is not punished.

    Try to read slowly and see if that helps you to understand.

    Exodus 21:20-21 “And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property].”

  249. Maz said

    Barney: It still doesn’t mean that it is right to beat your slave. I guess it’s all to do with mercy. In any case, we have tried to explain the master/slave relationship before and you won’t accept it. You also have to realise that if the master was punished when the slave didn’t die, then the slave would have to find another place to live and work. If you don’t work you have no place to live and you are a beggar on the streets. I guess the slaves felt it was better to be in employment than to have their freedom in the gutter…so to speak.

  250. Stanley said

    You’re under the impression that my God loves. She isn’t self aware on intelligent, she is an intelligence. We should leave the loving up to us.

  251. Maz said

    Stanley: What is a god without love? What is a life without love? What is a man without love?

  252. Mike S. said

    A clanging gong right?

  253. Stanley said

    I don’t think you quite get it. Gaia isn’t like a person. That is why your God is so small, and mine is so big.

  254. Mike S. said

    Maz
    I think it’s time to shake the dust of your sandals (John likes that term by the way) and let Stanley go play with his make believe god. We’ll pray that he comes to to know the Alpha and Omega, eternally existent, ominpotent, omniscient, and ominpresent God of all creation.

    Reminds me of when Elijah was challenged about his God by the Baal prophets.

    At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

  255. Maz said

    Stanley: Let me get this right….your god, Gaia, isn’t like a person, and doesn’t love, she is not self aware, yet intelligent, and that is why she is bigger than our God. I would like you to explain the logic of this.

    My God is a Supernatural Spirit that transends time and space, knows the end from the beginning and lives in eternity yet makes His presence known within time. That sounds pretty Big to me.

  256. Maz said

    Mike: I’m coming close.

  257. Stanley said

    Of all the things in the universe, why would you think God would be like you?

  258. Maz said

    I didn’t say He was like me, He is nothing like me. I’m not a Supernatural Spirit, I am not everywhere all at the same time, and I am not all powerful, and I don’t know the beginning from the end.

  259. F. L. A. said

    That is not quite what he meant, Maz.
    Although I really shouldn’t be surprised by it , I find it most disturbing that you and Mr.Sears would condone the murder of children, and for those reasons.
    Perhaps I am not as monstrous and insane as I once believed I was.

  260. F. L. A. said

    And exactly WHYYYY are you people anti-abortion again?

  261. Maz said

    Mike: I think this is where it ends. Nothing we say will help anyone to understand the way God works. Questioning His ways is dangerous to say the least and I am not going to extend the opportunity for this to go on.

  262. F. L. A. said

    What are you worried about, Maz?

  263. Maz said

    Ferox: I’m not worried about what you think I’m worried about…..but I know when to stop hitting my head against a brick wall!

  264. Mike S. said

    I agree Maz.

    F.L.A., Barney, Stanley et all
    You all can presume to be the judge over the Almighty God and His works all you want. But remember, you have tunnel vision as if you were looking through a microscopic tube. You do not, nor will you (neither will we), ever have the perspective that God has. You’re like an ant crawling on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel trying to see the whole picture. It can’t be done and you are being very arrogant to stand in judgment from your perspective.

    I’ll give you one quick example. When my Mother died of cancer and then my Father-In-law died in a tragic accident 5 months later, I could easily have cursed God and told Him how unfair He was to allow this to happen, however, these to events were instrumental pieces to bring me into faith in Christ. I now thank God for both of these events. (Especially because I know that both of them had a relationship with Christ)

    Think also of Jesus’ Mother and His followers, standing at the foot of the cross. Seeing the savior of the world crucified, bleeding, dying on the cross. They also had tunnel vision… Not having a clue that all of it was God’s purpose, that His Son would be whipped and punished, taking on the sin of the entire world. No one has ever suffered like Jesus Christ suffered. And He did so for you…. and for Maz…, and for me. I suggest that you truly consider what God (in Christ) went through in order to show His love for you, before you go and judge God based upon your microscopic view of eternity!!

  265. wes said

    I know that I am new to this board; and I must apologize for being out of touch for the last few days. But I must ask how it is that, seemingly one person (Stanley), can come to a bible based forum and troll his way through the threads as easily as this?

    Stanley: did you ever answer my question as to which of your individual rights that Christ would take away if He were in the White House? If you did I did not see your answer.

    And I still have yet to see the evidence I had asked you for to support your statement in post #163
    “I’d be terrified of a Christian theocracy. There’d be no room for reason or science or progressive modes of thought.”

    And now you claim Gaia to be your goddess;
    “Hesiod’s Theogony (116ff) tells how, after Chaos, arose broad-breasted Gaia the everlasting foundation of the gods of Olympus. She brought forth Uranus, the starry sky, and her equal; to cover her, the hills, and the fruitless deep of the Sea, Pontus, “without sweet union of love,” out of her own self through parthenogenesis. But afterwards, as Hesiod tells it, she lay with her son, Uranus, and bore the World-Ocean Oceanus, Coeus and Crius and the Titans Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis, Mnemosyne, and Phoebe of the golden crown, and lovely Tethys. “After them was born Cronus the wily, youngest and most terrible of her children, and he hated his lusty sire.”(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(mythology)

    Because I am will to give the benefit of the Doubt I will show you a reason to fear B. orack O. bama:

    “SUBJECT: CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
    Theologically – no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia .
    Religiously – no. . . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)
    Scripturally – no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.
    Geographically – no . . . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
    Socially – no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .
    Politically – no. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.
    Domestically – no. . . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34)
    Intellectually – no. . . Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
    Philosophically – no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
    Spiritually – no. . . . Because when we declare “one nation under God,” the Christian’s God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran’s 99 excellent names.

    Obama even says if he wins the election, he will be sworn in on the Quran—not a Bible!
    Footnote: He was sworn in on the Quran for his current office and he refuses to pledge allegiance to the United States or put his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is played!

    The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within. Hello! Having a Muslim president would seem to fit the bill! Will you trust this man with our national secrets? (personal E-mail from some one I trust)

    Will there be room for your goddess gaia under B.O.’s administration (if he should win)? I doubt it.

    I am still waiting for you to support your statements.

  266. wes said

    Because I am *will to give the benefit of the Doubt I will show you a reason to fear B. orack O. bama:

    That should be willing.

    Fixed

  267. F. L. A. said

    Mr.Sears, on many many occasions I have said, suggested, or implied that your God was perhaps something far bigger, weirder, and more mysterious than any of us could ever truly understand, which is why I chose to maintain an agnostic attitude in regards to your deity.
    Would you like a listing of posts? It is people like Maz and other Young Earth Christian Creationists which are putting out the limitations.
    History, sciences, the universe, even your deity.
    And you see nothing wrong with this?

    And I do not believe that Jesus suffered worse than any other. He was tortured and crucified as countless others before and after him were tortured and crucified. It was a common practice among the ancient Romans to treat criminals that way,or worse. Yes, there was worse. Jesus didn’t even suffer as long as others who where given the same fate usually suffered. It lasted daaaaaayyyyys.

  268. wes said

    “Would you like a listing of posts? It is people like Maz and other Young Earth Christian Creationists which are putting out the limitations.”

    I know I am not Mr. Sears, but I am curious; which limitations are you referring to?

  269. wes said

    “And I do not believe that Jesus suffered worse than any other. He was tortured and crucified as countless others before and after him were tortured and crucified. It was a common practice among the ancient Romans to treat criminals that way,or worse. Yes, there was worse. Jesus didn’t even suffer as long as others who where given the same fate usually suffered. It lasted daaaaaayyyyys.”

    And; here it is that you misunderstand the scriptures. It is not what JESUS went through (the torture and or the crucifixion): It is the reason why He endured this torture. Did He not tell Pilot that at any moment He could call 12 legions of angels to set him free? Yes, there were others that physically endured worse torture than My LORD; but I do not believe that any of them had the same goal in mind that He did.

  270. wes said

    But for now; if you will escuse me I must get ready for church and for work tonight. I will be back in the morning.
    LW

  271. John said

    Ferox is out for the evening, Wes.
    You’ll have to wait until tomorrow.

  272. John said

    You condone the murder of those children Mr.Sears?
    There’s blood on your sandals.
    I would murder a child in self defense, but not for theological reasons!
    You almost sounded as it was a merciful thing!
    This is really odd considering the discussion we had in the past involving death and abortion.

  273. Mike S said

    Do I condone it?
    Simply put…
    I believe it happened.
    God commanded it.
    He knows all… and I don’t (and neither do you)
    He’s perfect… and I’m not (and neither are you)
    He proved His love for all of mankind by taking the sin of the world upon Himself in Christ (which is by the way the suffering that is unmatched by any other…ever)
    He proved His power by rising from the dead.
    He came into my heart and transformed me from the inside out.

    So what shall I do… Believe some flaming liberals because they have a problem understanding my God? Or believe my God who has proved Himself time and time again? Well that’s a no brainer…

  274. John said

    You could have simply said “yes”.
    Isn’t it grand how we can use religion to condone or condemn anything? I’m glad the history of my theology isn’t like yours.
    I can respect the way that Christianity helped you accept and overcome the hardships of your life, transform you into what you undoubtedly think of as a better person. Believe in what helps you to cope with things. People always do.

  275. Stanley said

    Your “god” is the delusion of ancient nomads that happened to write a book. Gaia is an idea, and a force and an essence.

  276. Mike S said

    Isn’t it grand how we can use our own selfish desires to condone or condemn anything? I’m glad my God isn’t like yours.

  277. Stanley said

    Gaia didn’t “tell” me to condemn your religion. I’m just saying you’re wrong.

  278. Stanley said

    Your God willingly kills people. Gaia doesn’t choose who lives and who dies, we do, and things out of our control.

  279. randy said

    like i said , its all going to come out in the wash ,and i do mean wash! the day is coming, get ready ,be prepared. the Word said every knee shall bow,and every tongue will confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, but by this time it will be to late for you all to change things in your life, the way the tree falls is the way it will lay.only eternity will bear out the TRUTH. it does not matter what you beleive, or who , or what you plege your alleagance to, be sure your knee is going to bow and your tongue is going to confess that JESUS IS LORD! agin we are not to cast our pearls before the wine or to give that which is HOLY unto the dogs, as the scripture has said. its already been said in a previus post, shake the dust from your feet , it will be more tolerable for sodom and gomora. looks like all we have left for some folks is prayer.praying for you folks, yours in Christ randy.

  280. randy said

    agin ; one LORD, one FAITH, one BAPTISM! PRAISE GOD, HALLELUJAH!!!!! thank you JESUS. please exscuse me but i can’t help but get excited about my GOD and his Word YAHHHOOOOOOOOO!

    e

  281. Stanley said

    You sound like Tom Cruise.

  282. randy said

    i don’t know the man, but any ways GOD BLESS YA man. got to go to sleep! praying for ya’ll. yours in CHRIST randy, until the next. PS not tom cruise,but APOSTOLIC PENTECOST! WHOOOOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEEEE!good night.

  283. Stanley said

    You have problems.

  284. Maz said

    Wes #265. Good post! Very interesting.

  285. randy said

    nope; not me my friend, those that are without CHRIST , they are the ones that are going to have problems. i count it a prevledge to be a child of the (King). and i am excited about it!!!!!!

  286. Maz said

    Stanley: If I were in your position I would be exxxxxtreeeeeeemely worried, even fearful! I can’t think of a worst thing than to end up in hell for a never ending eternity just because I was too stubborn to humble myself and come to Jesus Christ for salvation. He DOESN’T WANT YOU THERE, THAT IS WHY HE DIED! Can’t you see? But ofcourse you won’t, it seems Satan has blinded your mind and you won’t even try to seek your Lord and God.

  287. Stanley said

    If Satan has truly blinded me, why am I being held accountable? Coming to Christ isn’t something you just out of nowhere do because it seems like a good idea, you have to be raised into it, have a “religious experience,” lie and say you’re a Christian because you’re self-interested, or have some life changing disaster that makes you need emotional strength from the supernatural. I don’t anticipate any of those things happening to me, because I’m strong on my own, and when I fail my strength comes from my friends, family, and community. I already tried to be Christian, it just doesn’t make sense.

  288. Maz said

    Stanley: Because we are shedding light into your darkness but you are choosing to stay in the dark yourself. See, it’s all back down to CHOICE. It is YOUR CHOICE to reject the message we are giving you.
    If someone is lost in a dark place and someone else has a light to show you the way out wouldn’t it be stupid to carry on groping in the darkness rather than follow the light?

  289. Mike S. said

    Stanley
    How do you account for the explosion of Christianity in Africa over the past 50 – 80 years? These people were not raised into the faith. And the underground church in China. Have you ever seen the movie, “End of the Spear” or the documentary about Jim Elliot and Steve Saint as missionaries in the Amazon? That would be difficult to reconcile to your claims about why people come into faith in Christ.

  290. Stanley said

    They’re also largely uneducated, they don’t know any better. Shame on you for taking advantage of them.

  291. F. L. A. said

    That comment actually belongs on the other “Journey to the Sudan” site, Stanley.
    So, I am a “flaming liberal”?
    I never would have thought that I was flaming liberal material, but then, this is only when I compare myself to the criteria of Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage[Heh!Heh!].
    Maz, we know that you condone book burning, genocide, and the willful altering of the sciences and historical facts.
    Do you think that this knowledge makes your efforts at proselytizing easy to accept, and your view of the ideal afterlife more appealing?

  292. Mike S. said

    No F.L.A. I do not consider you a flaming liberal. Sorry, I was addressing more than you and John in that comment. You are in a class all of your own, but you already know that. God Bless your precious soul. And John, Yes I do have blood on my sandals… Actually I’m covered with blood… The precious blood of Jesus Christ!

  293. Maz said

    F.L.A: If God condones something, I condone it. If God condemns something, I condemn it. Who am I to say how He does things in this world….and WHO are you to judge God for His ways uponn this sinful world?

    He sent His Son, His precious one and Only Son to save man….to save YOU….. from their/your sin and the results of it which are clearly seen across the globe today. How dare you or anyone question God.
    And I trust my Creator God far more than a mere man called Charles Darwin or any other mere man who presumes to present Gods creation as an accident that evolved itself over millions of years. Science has proved that this world and this Universe is full of entropy. THAT fact alone proves that things don’t evolve, they don’t get better, they are getting worse. That scenario alone goes to prove the Bible is true rather than the assumptions and ideas and theories of a sinful creature.

  294. F. L. A. said

    If you knew me better you might question whether or not I actually possessed a soul Mr.Sears, but I thank you for the blessing regardless.
    Maz, I actually judge the followers more than the deity.
    And as for you entropy argument, you seem to conveniently forget or ignore the FACT that alongside the entropy within this known universe, there is also creation,birth, and growth, in everything from Earthbound microbes to stars.
    As John said, your evidence is….most weak.
    Would you like to try again?

  295. Maz said

    F.L.A: Actually nothing is being ‘created’ now. What is in the Universe goes through it’s cycles as does life on this planet, but it is still running down, not getting better.

  296. Maz said

    As so often happens, this has nothing to do with a woman in the Whitehouse. I guess it’s an impossible task to keep to the subject in hand. This is where I leave.

  297. Barney said

    Bubye!

  298. wes said

    Stanley says:
    “They’re also largely uneducated, they don’t know any better. Shame on you for taking advantage of them.”

    Because you do not respond to direct questions it is the same as telling me you do not have the answers to support your opinions. And you are still willing to call the people of Africa uneducated?

  299. wes said

    At least the bible teaches those that adhere to it, to be ready to give an answer for the reasons why we believe.

  300. wes said

    And prey tell what do consider a “religeous experience?”

  301. F. L. A. said

    Too bad the answers are not always good or well educated answers.

  302. wes said

    Ilove it when someone says “Because that is what my preacher says!” In a sense that is the same as man worshiping man with no biblical study.

  303. wes said

    I had asked this question to another forum:
    “Is there any of life’s situations or circumstances that there were no answers found for them in the King James Version of the bible?”

    Unanimously the answers were “No.” But in some the answers were “No, I just did not like what it said.”

  304. John said

    Here is one Wes, how would a Christian make the theology of Christianity appealing to an alien intelligence.
    Can you offer any helpful scriptures or something for a circumstance like this?

  305. F. L. A. said

    That John, he is sUch a joker sometimes, isn’t he?
    However I am also interested in hearing your answer in regards to this hypothetical if not completely imaginary circumstance.

  306. wes said

    And now, once again friends, Duty calls; LW I will have longer tomorrow night.

  307. wes said

    I will try to answer post #304 tomorrow night. Stay tune to the same Bat Channel maybe not the same Bat time.

  308. John said

    ?????
    Bat Channel, Bat time?
    Oh well, goodnight.

  309. Stanley said

    Nearly all African nations have pitiful education systems.

  310. randy said

    stanley; are you telling me that you are like the college professor i met in brazil some years ago? i asked him to one of our meetings, and tried to witness to him, would you like to no what he told me? ho yes and he was communist german teaching in brazil. well he said that this was good for these simple minded people, but not for him! referring to salvation in Jesus Christ.i felt that you had, had an exsperianceat one point in time and was wondering what had turned you away from Christ. know you done have to be taught by somebody to be able to come to Christ. the bible teaches us that Bro. paul was not taught of man but of God. it was God the Lord Jesus Christ that struck him down while he was on the road to damascus. thus his conversion began. although God does use people to lead people to himself. come on stanley God is dangling the hook in front of you all you have to do is bite,come on surely your hungry for a real exsperiance, and a lasting relationship with God. then you receive real joy and peace like youve never known, ho yes and even get excited about it like so many of us are. GOD BLESS ya! randy. ps yes i mentioned your name before the throne of God this morning. God Loves You.

  311. Stanley said

    There are a great many social pressures on becoming Christian. I experienced a great deal of love in a church, but I think a lot of that love was forced. You love your neighbor because you have to. I think you can only love what you know. If you don’t know about it, how can you love it? I think you should love everyone you can.

  312. Maz said

    John #304: How can Wes give you scriptures for a situation that does not exist? God would not have any scriptures written for such a scenario would He? Mmmmm.

    Stanley: You really do talk a lot of rubbish at times….some contradictions too.
    You tell us we should love everybody then accuse us of not doing so. How can you possibly know what is in our hearts? Really Stanley, it seems all you live your life for is to come on here and have a go at Christians. You really aren’t interested in having an intelligent debate.

  313. Stanley said

    I’m just saying your mouth shouldn’t write checks your actions can’t cash.

  314. Mike S. said

    And the pot speaks again!

  315. Stanley said

    There really is no intelligent debate with people that reject stone cold facts because they choose to ignore them based on superstitions.

  316. Mike S. said

    Stanley
    You and Christopher Hitchens are in the same league. Heavy on emotional rhetoric with no real content to your arguments. Actually, you don’t back up any of your arguments, but just make accusations.

  317. Maz said

    Mike, you took the words right out of my mouth!

    Stanley: Who is superstitious here? Making his own gods the way he likes them. Mmmmmmmmm.

  318. Stanley said

    Nothing supernatural about Gaia. She is completely natural.

  319. Maz said

    Stanley: If she isn’t a supernatural being/spirit then the question is what ‘nature’ does she possess? Ofcourse by supernatural, I mean outside the realm of the physical. And she could have no divine nature, for only God is Divine, all other spirits, angelic or otherwise are subservient to Him.

  320. Mike S. said

    Oh yeah? Then where is the empirical evidence for her existence? Hey Chris or Abc, care to tackle this one? Fruit Loops for lunch!!

  321. F. L. A. said

    “God would not have any scriptures written for such a scenario, would he?”-Maz
    I believe that this cuts to the very heart of John’s point, Maz.
    But just for fun, let us see if Wes can produce something regardless.
    The “Golden Rule” would probably be a good enough place to start, do you not think?

  322. Barney said

    Re: 264

    Mike, how can one NOT question the Bible? You apparently think that you have a better understanding of God and nature because you don’t question the Bible. Nothing you have said mystifies me. I think I understand you perfectly.

    If God commanded you to kill some babies what would you do? Right. I’m going to question God. So are the rest of the non-fundamentists. If that means I can’t be in your cult then that’s OK with me.

    Sarah Palin is such a poor choice. Think about the cheater making poor decisions that will affect the fate of the world. Cheater McCain just being himself I guess.

  323. F. L. A. said

    Maz, Stanley did not invent Gaia, the belief in her is an ancient concept.
    Mr.Sears, do you really want ABC’s and Chris to get in on this topic? They could use the scientific methods of empirical evidence to discredit your concept of deity just as easily as you would hope it to be done on Stanley’s.

  324. Stanley said

    Different Gaia, F.L.A.

    My God isn’t like your God. You still have the “Zeus” thing going on.
    Its not whether or not she exists, because she isn’t an it, she is a why.

  325. Mike S. said

    Sorry F.L.A. but it’s impossible to disprove God’s existence with empirical evidence. I’m not worried about Chris, Abc or anyone else forthat matter disproving God’s existence. My point was that our friend Stanley claimed that his little god was “completely natural”, not “supernatural” I would think that you would be all over that one too.

  326. abc's said

    I don’t have an issue with someone believing in Gaia or any other supernatural entity. I only take issue if they try to make me believe it, or when they try to teach it as truth to children in spite of the evidence.

  327. Mike S. said

    Barney
    “I think I understand you perfectly.” Your post proves that you don’t.

  328. abc's said

    Mike S.

    It is impossible to conclusively prove or disprove the existence of a deity.

    However, I think it is possible to make a case against certain conceptions of a deity as extremely unlikely. I think that’s what F.L.A. meant.

  329. Stanley said

    Like the Judeo-christian God. Supposedly perfect, but does very not perfect things, frequently.

  330. Mike S. said

    Abc, are we (Christians) on this site trying to “make” you believe anything? Certainly we are all (you included) posting our beliefes on this site as an attempt to convince others of our beliefs. So, why is it then when our follower of Ms. Gaia, or whatever she is, posit’s his beliefs and claims that His god is a completely natural entity you don’t take issue? Is it because Ms. Gaia is not threatening to your lifestyle and does not convict you of the sin in your heart like God Almighty does?

  331. Stanley said

    My God doesn’t damn people to eternal torture…

  332. Mike S. said

    “Make a case”?… sure… make all the cases you want… “extremely unlikely”… hasn’t been done yet… we’ll see.

  333. Mike S. said

    Stanley… empty emotional rhetoric…

    People damn themselves. They like choices so much…

  334. Stanley said

    Nope. Your church sets unreasonable rules, and then you say: I know I don’t follow the rules, but I’m saved and you’re not because this old book says so.

  335. Stanley said

    Does your God, or people affiliated with your God send people to hell?

    YES OR NO?

  336. Mike S. said

    Not without them choosing so He doesn’t. And definitely no one “affiliated” does.

    He simply allows their choice to be fully ratified.

  337. Stanley said

    But he sets the rules and sends good people to hell.

    My God doesn’t do that, because she doesn’t choose anything, and there is no supernatural hell.

  338. abc's said

    Mike S.

    “Is it because Ms. Gaia is not threatening to your lifestyle and does not convict you of the sin in your heart like God Almighty does?”

    This is what I mean by “make me believe.” I think you honestly believe what you said, so you can’t understand it when I say that it isn’t true. There is no sin in my heart. There is no conviction of it. There is no need to be forgiven of it. That is something that you believe. You are judging me. Stanley is not judging me.

  339. abc's said

    Stanley

    Are you referring to Gaia in the: the Earth is a complex “living” ecosystem kind of way?

  340. Mike S. said

    Let me get this straight. Your God is completely natural, doesn’t choose or do anything. What is it that makes her a god aside form your selfish preferences?

  341. Stanley said

    Nope. I’m just saying that there is an intelligence about the universe. Everything seems to work pretty well, and that is because there is a force (not a conscious being), setting natural laws so everything fits into place.

  342. Stanley said

    Well, she isn’t a God like your God is a (fake) God. You think my God is a silly white haired person living in the clouds like yours. Shes much more than that. She is why clouds are.

  343. Stanley said

    I don’t expect you to get it, you’d have to spend a great deal of time thinking about it and you’d have to change your understanding about God, the universe, infinity, particle physics, right and wrong among other things.

  344. Stanley said

    On that note, I’m off to Tallahassee, Florida for the Wake Forest/Florida State game tomorrow night. GO DEACS!

  345. abc's said

    Stanley

    Neat. It sounds like methodological naturalism.

  346. Mike S. said

    Ahhh! We agree on something!!! I will be watching on the tube. I hope Skinner continues his great leadership and passing percentage. Did you know he is ninth in the country in passing %?

  347. F. L. A. said

    Post#324
    Ohhh.
    Yes, I was referring to the original Gaia.

    Post#325
    Well, you did not invite me, and I wanted to see if Chris C. or Abc’s would say something first.
    Abc’s understood me.
    Because there is no way to absolutely prove or disprove the existence of deities using purely scientific evidences you will have to turn to other methods. Unfortunately though, almost ANY method that you can conceive to try and discredit the existence of a deity can ALSO be used against you as a theist.Any theist. It is an easy thing to claim “But myyyyyy religion is older!”, but this does not matter, for once upon a time, EVERY theological belief system on this planet[Unless you believe in space aliens too] was once viewed by others as some weirdo’s “new cult”. They start out as beliefs, get more complicated, become ritualized, become oral traditions, get even MOOORE complicated, and eventually either lose their popularity and die out into becoming mythologies and legends, or become more popular and powerful, eventually get written down, and eventually, become heated topics of debate on a computer…..[Huge sharp-toothed grin].

  348. Tripp said

    Stanley – Are you referring to the God of the Bible as a “fake” god? If so, I would submit that your methods of trying to persuade Christians that your beliefs hold any water at all are completely ineffective. By the way, I live in Winston-Salem and I follow the Deacons as well even though I don’t subscribe to their liberal viewpoints. I may have to root for Coach Bowden now that I know you’re a Deacon fan.

  349. abc's said

    I agree also. I do not like Florida State.

  350. Mike S. said

    Now Tripp, you can’t snub our Deacons just because of some fruit loop fans now!! Where is the love man?

  351. F. L. A. said

    How the tide doth turn, eh Moderator?
    Men love their sports.

  352. Mike S. said

    Abc
    Are you saying that I should not be judging you? By saying so do you not realize that you are judging me by accusing me of judging you? You say we shouldn’t judge others then? Even those who accuse you of being wrong?

    It is very convenient (and it sounds so tolerant) for liberals to say “you should not judge” yet they pass judgement on conservatives all the time. Isn’t that right Barney?

  353. Maz said

    I hate football. Never heard of the Deacons and the who?? But I wouldn’t over here.
    Well, looks like we are all getting along dandy here as usual. I guess I havn’t missed anything.

    Moderator: I wonder sometimes what you think of all this pointless back and forth and getting absolutely nowhere!

  354. Mike S. said

    I was thinking the same thing Maz. Fruitless and frivolous… 😦

  355. Maz said

    Mike we are accomplishing nothing and giving opportunity for those who oppose God to continue to slight Him and degrade His Person, reject and tred upon the blood of Jesus as if it were nothing. I shall not continue in this fruitless exercise any longer. I just wonder how God feels about it all.

  356. Tripp said

    Hey, sorry…..didn’t mean to hi-jack the thread. Just trying to make a point. I think this thread is done anyways.

  357. F. L. A. said

    Life is always difficult in proportion to its intensity and reality.

    “Christianity is a battle, not a dream.”-Wendell Phillips

  358. Barney said

    Ah, dismissed by Tripp! Can I make just one more post, Sir?

    Re:352

    How could you possibly be wrong, Mike?

    I am a fan (and an employee) of WFU, so at least I can agree with ya’ll about football.

  359. Mike S. said

    We should have lunch sometime Barney. Do you think you could stand it? I think I might surprise you. I might not be as ignorant as you think I am?

  360. abc's said

    Mike S.

    People judge each other all the time. That is our nature.

    With the judging I was referring to the idea of “sinning against God” and eternal damnation etc. Those are things that you believe. You are judging my lifestyle and believe that I will end up in hell. That is what you believe. I don’t see any good evidence for those things.

    Why do you assume that my political views are liberal? Could you explain my “lifestyle” to me?

  361. Barney said

    Mike, I am sure that we’d get along well enough. We all have much more in common that we have differences, and any Deacon fan has to be well informed about most of life’s most important issues!

  362. Tripp said

    OK, OK….I guess we can all agree to disagree about some things, but still agree that THE DEACS RULE!!! Share the love. Coach Grobe for president!

  363. Mike S said

    Abc
    So it’s ok then? So why are you taking issues with it?

    Anyway, I am not judging you specifically but running with the general rule that everyone of us has a sinful heart (me included) and apart from Christ we are hopelessly up the creek. No one is immune.

    And sorry for the “liberal” assumption, I guess I lumped you in with the other Christianity attackers, my bad.

  364. wes said

    I made the statement that there was no situation or circumstance in life that there was not an answer for it in the King James Bible. Ok; John asked the question:
    “Here is one Wes, how would a Christian make the theology of Christianity appealing to an alien intelligence.
    Can you offer any helpful scriptures or something for a circumstance like this?”
    And to this F.L.A. said that was curious as to how I would answer.

    Well let me see what the LORD would give to answer this.

    First of all when John is speaking of an Alien Intelligence I assume that he referring to a civilization that would be technologically more advanced than our own. And with this in mind I would begin with Exodus 19v4-6 to set my parameters. I believe that GOD’s intention from the beginning was to give the world an example of the benefits of serving Him and He chose the children of Israel to lead the way. Reference also Ezekiel 16v1-14. Now with this in mind let me try to begin to answer John’s question.

    I believe that the life of a true believer of Christ, not just the things that we say (words are cheap) but the way we put the scriptures to practice in our lives will lead even the most learned people to trust in our savior. In Exodus 12v38 we see that there were others that followed Israel when they left Egypt. Is it possible that they had witnessed the power of the GOD of Israel? Remember that Israel was a nation of slaves to the Egyptians; historically Egypt was more advanced than these slaves yet a few saw an advantage to serving this powerful GOD.

    In Genesis 39v1 we read of one of Israel’s sons (Joseph by name) who was sold into slavery and in chapter 41v37-44 we see that because of Joseph’s example a greater civilization acknowledged the benefits of serving GOD. Read what the Pharaoh said:
    “And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find [such a one] as this [is], a man in whom the Spirit of God [is]? And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, [there is] none so discreet and wise as thou [art]:” And then Pharaoh made Joseph a ruler in Egypt second only to himself.

    Look at the Book of Daniel, Here a man who was kidnapped (a victim of Alien abduction so to speak) and served under four kings not giving up his faith in his GOD for any reason. Setting the example he led at least three of them to trust in his GOD. The Book of John in the NT shows how it was the life of Christ that encouraged many even a few of the priests to return to true worship of GOD.

    And finally Cornelius. Ac 10:1 “There was a certain man in Caesarea called CORNELIUS, a centurion of the band called the Italian band”
    Cornelius was a Roman, the most advanced civilization on Earth at this time. And yet at some time possibly because of his observance of the Jews, He decided that the GOD of the Jews was a GOD worth serving. Ac 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

    No not one of these examples is of people from another world. But bear in mind whether they are human or lizard if the society or civilization is intelligent they will see the truth if it is presented in a sincere manner. How would I entice an alien to serve Christ? I would follow the examples of greater men then me.

  365. wes said

    John and F.L.A. at least I gave an answer.

  366. wes said

    Stanley Says:
    September 19, 2008 at 1:29 pm
    Like the Judeo-christian God. Supposedly perfect, but does very not perfect things, frequently.

    I’ll wait for Stanley to come back on this one.

  367. Mike S said

    F.L.A. #357
    Good quote. Made me think of this one:
    “Life is war, that’s not all it is, but it is always that” John Piper – Let The Nations Be Glad

  368. Tripp said

    This is making the rounds online:

    Subject: : Don’t Be Surprised if this Really Happens!

    On or about October 5th, Biden will excuse himself from the ticket, citing
    health problems, and he will be replaced by Hillary. This is timed to occur
    after the VP debate on 10/2.

    There have been talks all weekend about how to proceed with this info.
    Generally, the feeling is that we should all go ahead and get it out there
    to as many blog sites and personal email lists as is possible. I have
    already seen a few short blurbs about this – the ‘health problem’ cited in
    those articles was aneurysm. Probably many of you have heard the same
    rumblings.

    However, at this point, with this inside info from the DNC, it looks like
    this Obama strategy will be a go. Therefore, it seems that the best
    strategy is to get out in front of this Obama maneuver, spell it out in
    detail, and thereby expose it for the grand manipulation that it is.

    So, let’s start mixing this one up and cut the Obamites off at the pass –
    send this info out to as many people as you can – post about it on websites
    and blogs – etc

  369. Stanley said

    What a game. Not many better feelings than beating a team in front of 80,000 fanatical fans who harassed you for 4 hours. Didn’t get to write my philosophy essay for ya’ll, unfortunately I get a car sick when writing during 10 hour bus rides.

    Feel free to pull for Florida State, Tripp…

  370. Tripp said

    It doesn’t bother me that you’re a Deacon fan, Stanley. I’m a Deacon fan too and I’ll pull for them regardless of what you think of me. Plus, it does kinda make it more fun for me knowing that it gets under your skin. Haha!

    McCain/Palin – 2008!

  371. Stanley said

    ?

    You said “I think I’ll pull against Wake, because you like them.” So I said “Good luck with that whole ‘losing’ thing.” Doesn’t bother me.

  372. F. L. A. said

    Wes, about your response in post#365, are you referring to your answer within post#364, or implying that we have not answered one of your questions?

    Are you a Young Earth Creationists?

  373. Tripp said

    Blimey! Confused again!!!! Oh well…no harm, no foul. Carry on, Jeeves.

  374. F. L. A. said

    I had to go out and eat something so I did not have the time then to do your post justice with a good reply earlier, Wes. My apologies.
    Anyway, about post#364, First of all thank you for even taking the time to try and answer the question John presented. Many Christians would have considered the scenario so impossible as to not even bother with trying to answer. So, thank you for your efforts.
    BUT…why would a non-human life form from another world find appeal in a human based Earth religion? One of Christianity’s main themes is that humans need Jesus as their personal Lord and savior, to save their souls from the taint of Original Sin committed by Adam and Eve.
    Why would this be important to someone with non-human ancestry? Why would an alien feel the need for divine protection and spiritual cleansing from what they would view as an Alien God’s curse…upon ancient alien ancestors that they never even had?
    What if they already had a theological belief system of their own? Would you be willing to adopt any of their theological beliefs? I would not think so, for you sound as one who is happily secure and satisfied with your theological belief system.
    Some Christians would not even be able to accept the idea of non-human intelligence, let alone actually trying to have a spiritual relationship with it.

  375. Stanley said

    I want to meet some aliens. It could revolutionize everything we know.

  376. F. L. A. said

    Yeah, me too.
    Perhaps some of us have, and did not recognize them for what they were, or something.Or something.
    It might not be for the best though, you know.
    Everyone always seems to assume that they would be ultra advanced,benevolent, technological geniuses.
    But what if they were barbaric, monstrous, or primitive?
    Or boring?

  377. wes said

    To F.L.A.
    I was refering to the answer to John question about Aliens.

    Also please tell me how the age of the earth is a heaven or hell issue?

  378. wes said

    BUT…why would a non-human life form from another world find appeal in a human based Earth religion?

    Remember I said: “But bear in mind whether they are human or lizard if the society or civilization is intelligent they will see the truth if it is presented in a sincere manner.”

    The bible says that wisdom begins with the fear of the LORD. Now I understand that you may or may not accept biblical scriptures. But the question was what scripture would I turn to. May it is not the words that I speak, but hopefully the life that I live. Again words are cheap.

  379. wes said

    I am not like a lot of my fellow believers who consider us to be the first. Let me ask you a question: If I use the prefix “re” in front of a word what does that mean?

  380. wes said

    Why would this be important to someone with non-human ancestry? Why would an alien feel the need for divine protection and spiritual cleansing from what they would view as an Alien God’s curse…upon ancient alien ancestors that they never even had?
    What if they already had a theological belief system of their own? Would you be willing to adopt any of their theological beliefs? I would not think so, for you sound as one who is happily secure and satisfied with your theological belief system.
    Some Christians would not even be able to accept the idea of non-human intelligence, let alone actually trying to have a spiritual relationship with it.

    What is the reason for Archeology in todays society? No matter where you or who you are there are always questions. What is it that motovated this people to do the things they did? Why did the egyptians build the sphinx? The pyramids? Why would they be interested in our religion? Answers!!

  381. Stanley said

    If they find us, they’re probably considerably more advanced with us because there is no way we could get out of the solar system with our technology. The possibilities are endless in space, because space is pretty endless.

  382. wes said

    And what is Archeology Stanley?

  383. Stanley said

    Archeology is the studying of artifacts from ancient cultures.

  384. wes said

    Tell me Stanley; why should we desire to study these artifacts?

  385. Stanley said

    To understand past cultures. The same reason we study creationist stories in English, not science class.

  386. Barney said

    re: post 379

    Wes, ‘re’ means regarding, as in the above: regarding post number 379.

  387. Maz said

    Barney: ‘re’ usually means to return to a previous condition……repeat, reunite, remake, return, react, replenish and regarding…meaning look again.

  388. Stanley said

    “re” is a suffix that should be “er,” but the Brits spell backwards. Ex: Theatre.

  389. wes said

    Exactly:

    Ge 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    Tell me; how can someone replenish some thing, if there was nothing there before hand?

  390. Stanley said

    So you’re saying we should all be in the WWF?

  391. Maz said

    Wes: I have heard of the explanation for the translation for the word ‘replenish’ in the Bible.
    I can’t remember what it was but I know that the original does not mean to make again…..I shall be back with a fuller explanation when I find it!

  392. wes said

    replenish
    Strong’s Hebrew #4390

    1) to fill, be full

    a) (Qal)

    1) to be full

    a) fulness, abundance (participle)

    b) to be full, be accomplished, be ended

    2) to consecrate, fill the hand

    b) (Niphal)

    1) to be filled, be armed, be satisfied

    2) to be accomplished, be ended

    c) (Piel)

    1) to fill

    2) to satisfy

    3) to fulfil, accomplish, complete

    4) to confirm

    d) (Pual) to be filled

    e) (Hithpael) to mass themselves against

  393. Tripp said

    Barney and Stanley are just here to stir up trouble. Sounds like a good comedy team.

  394. Maz said

    Wes: Thanks for that. I have found that the Hebrew word ‘male’ has a couple of meanings…..one of which is ‘fill’, which is actually translated in Gen: 1 v 22 as ‘fill’. So I am of the understanding that there was no former creation between v 1 and v 2 of Gen: 1 as some believe. The Bible clearly teaches that God created the heavens and the earth in six days, nowhere does it tell us that it was ‘recreated’ in six days. The Gap Theory was invented to fir the millions of years in.

  395. Maz said

    ….to fit…not to fir!

  396. F. L. A. said

    Wes, I do not understand the question within the bottom half of post#377.Age of the Earth a Heaven or Hell issue? What?

    Post#378-Do you not understand how incompatible Christian “truth” would be to an alien or non-human culture?
    Archeology is the one of the branch of sciences that involve the study of the ancient past.
    Are you assuming that alien life would study one particular Earth religion and come to the understanding of the same “truth”[And what exactly do you mean by the use of this word, anyway? After debating with people like Maz on topics such as science, I have come to the conclusion that “truth” is not always true.] and use it in the same manner as the Christian? One can learn about different beliefs, history, and various facts, and still not apply it to one’s life and personal theological belief system. Have you ever conducted a study on how the ancient Romans built their roads?
    Ever personally apply this knowledge to your life?
    Do you see what I mean?

  397. wes said

    A lot of people want to use the age of the earth prove or to disprove GOD. I Personally do not see where the age of the earth is an issue of salvation.

  398. F. L. A. said

    Well, IIIIIIII personally do not think that the Earths age[or even a religions age]would be relevant to the issue of Christian salvation, but I am what could be called a “Christian abomination”, so what do I know.

  399. wes said

    “Do you not understand how incompatible Christian “truth” would be to an alien or non-human culture?”

    Are you asking because the biblesaid we were created in His (GOD’s) image?

  400. wes said

    “Archeology is the one of the branch of sciences that involve the study of the ancient past.”

    Exactly: the ancient global past.

    “Are you assuming that alien life would study one particular Earth religion and come to the understanding of the same “truth” and use it in the same manner as the Christian?”

    I do not presume that any intelligent civilization would focus on only one religion. But the question was “How would I persuade an alien to accept Christ?” My answer was to follow the examples of the great men of the Bible when they lead kings and leaders of advanced societies to their GOD.

  401. wes said

    F.L.A. we were all abominations at one time. What do you Know? So far I have seen quite a bit of knowledge.

  402. wes said

    I agree that in todays society, the word truth is like the word Christian; Many people claim it but very few show it.

  403. F. L. A. said

    [……………….]
    Thank you Wes.
    I have never had the benefit of any formal education either.

  404. wes said

    “One can learn about different beliefs, history, and various facts, and still not apply it to one’s life and personal theological belief system.”

    This is very true, but if some one is looking for a religion the Bible tells us that a wise man will; before he begins to build a tower, sit down and count the cost. Too many people want a religious belief to fit their lifestyle. But I believe GOD wants a people who are willing to change their lifestyle to conform to His will.
    By all means look at the history of different religions. By all means look at all the facts [But remember just because someone says “In the name of GOD, does not make it a command of GOD].

  405. wes said

    [……………….]
    Thank you Wes.
    I have never had the benefit of any formal education either.

    You Mean; you do not have a piece of paper hanging on your wall?

    OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  406. wes said

    “Have you ever conducted a study on how the ancient Romans built their roads?”

    Kind of like looking at a floating glacier from the air.

  407. John said

    The only papers Ferox and I have hanging from our walls are hand-written rules, cardboard masks, and animal/monster drawings.
    Ferox was, you might say, “home-schooled” by me and my Grandparents and Parents. And we all read A LOT!

    Is it unusual for[normal]people to not have “paper” hanging from their walls?

  408. F. L. A. said

    “You Mean;you do not have a piece of paper hanging on your wall?
    OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”-Wes

    If this means that you believe I am smart enough to possess a degree in something important, then I am flattered.

  409. Stanley said

    I got a marching band award in high school, does that count?

    Ironically enough, it was the “always faithful” award.

  410. F. L. A. said

    Why not? He did not specify the nature of the hanging paper, did he?

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