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Changing the World one foot at a time!

Posted by truthtalklive on August 26, 2008

On todays show Stu interviews The Ultimite Foot Washer the president of Samaritan’s Feet Manny Fernandes . Samaritan’s Feet is an International ministry focused on bringing a life-changing message of hope to youths and children through sports and recreational adventures. We provide relief to hurting people displaced due to poverty, ravaged wars, and religious persecution. We demonstrate compassion by washing and equipping their feet with shoes, and touching their hearts with the love of God. For more information please visit http://www.samaritansfeet.org/.

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67 Responses to “Changing the World one foot at a time!”

  1. Stanley said

    Unrelated, but an interesting thought. If life after death is eternal, why would the supreme being concern himself with inspiring people to write a book about him? Wouldn’t a truly omnipotent/omniscient being understand that a person’s spirit is only just beginning to mature during a physical lifetime. So, the human spirit is still an infant, and yet God would condemn them to hell based on a fraction of their experience?

    I question because I’m out to find the pure, unadulterated truth. I’d love to become Christian, but there are a number of large issues I have with it.

  2. ADB said

    Stanley,

    Part of your problem I think lies in the fact that you’re mixing Greek pagan concepts and Judeo-Christian ones. The stark division between soul and body is more Greek than Judeo-Christian. Though some contemporary Christians have inadvertantly wandered off into what we Christians call Gnosticism, traditionally we have looked at people as a whole. God is interested in the whole. For us eternal life isn’t the spirit escaping the body, it is the resurrection of the body at the last day. In death we are with the Lord, but the fullness of eternal life comes in the resurrection. I hope this helps.

    Best Wishes,
    the curmudgeonly pastor

  3. Maz said

    Stanley: Have you read any of the Bible? Genesis gives us the story of how sin entered the world. This is where all our problems as mankind started. Sin separated man from God spiritually. When Jesus came and died on the cross, He made it possible for us to have a relationship with God our Farther again.
    Jesus took our punishment for sin and if we believe in Him as Savior we are forgiven of sin and receive eternal life (spiritually), we have to wait for physical redemption when we are resurrected or Raptured (which is another story). But I’v never actually thot of our spirits being infants. That’s a concept I’m not sure is true. Maybe ADB has thots on that. Does my 2p help?

  4. Stanley said

    Well, the big point here is that (assuming the Bible is correct) our time on Earth is so small in compared to the eternity that supposedly awaits us. Why would it be important to avoid sin, or come to Christ when we have eternity to learn and discover the actual truth?

  5. Stanley said

    Why would we be held accountable for faithlessness when eventually we will know whether or not Christianities assertions are true?

  6. Ben Maulis said

    Our hope is in the resurrection. “If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.” The scriptures do account for spirit, soul, and body, but rather than indicating their separability into three parts, the scriptures demonstrate the wholeness of the creation. One verse commonly referred to by trichotomous anthropologists is Hebrews 4:12, but the phrase “dividing asunder” does not refer to the separation of soul, spirit and body – rather it refers to a dividing of the whole. Imagine an apple. It has a skin, flesh, and core. To “divide it asunder” with a sword you slice it in half – all three parts. I’m not saying it’s impossible to skin and core it, but that is not the obvious interpretation. One of the epistles reveals that we will be raised in a “spiritual body.” That phrase alone calls dichotomous and trichotomous anthropology into question.

    Trichotomous anthropology is *very important* for deceivers that forswear the resurrection. It has not been an inadvertent wandering at all. “You are a spirit, that has a soul, that just happens to live in a body” theology is pounded into the audiences by nearly every minister on television stations that target Christians. It is essential to “kingdom now” theology and subsequently to the basis of their promises of healing and prosperity. It is written of them, “Their word will eat as doth a canker… who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.”

  7. Maz said

    Stanley: We only have the time on earth to find the truth in Jesus Christ, after death you will enter eternity……you have a choice of two destinations, one with Christ, or one in your sin. With Christ you will enter into eternal life in Heaven, without Him you will enter the most terrible place imaginable….with the devil and his demons, nothing that is good and lovely is there. Christ has made a way for us…..all we have to do is accept what He has done on the cross and be born again.
    I wouldn’t particularly want to live longer than this short time on earth, not the way the world is now. In fact I can’t wait to go to be with the Lord….Paul (in the Bible) says that it is far better.
    We have this life to learn…..70+ years isn’t long enough? It takes only a moment to get in touch with God in prayer, seek Him, ask Him….knock on His door…He will answer.

  8. Maz said

    Ben: “You are a spirit, that has a soul, that just happens to live in a body” theology is pounded into the audiences by nearly every minister on television stations that target Christians.”
    What are we if we are not a triune being….created in the image of God, Who is a Triune Being?

  9. Stanley said

    I think you guys miss the big picture, or haven’t spent much time thinking about eternity. 70 years is infinitely small in eternity. Paul would be under qualified to speak of heaven, seeing as he probably wasn’t dead when he wrote his part of the Bible.

    I honestly think you don’t find God yourself. I think society puts so much pressure on you that you end up believing whatever they tell you. I’ve tried to find God, as sincerely as I can, but I rediscover the same conclusion.

  10. Ben Maulis said

    Stanley,

    Your question about our accountability for faithfulness appears to be based on a view of the gospel as a contrived dilemma presented to man for the purpose of determining his eternal destiny. It is not.

    You questioned the importance of avoiding sin or coming to Christ while suggesting that man lacks the maturity to determine his ultimate destiny based on his own volition. This leads me to believe you have perceived the gospel as a dilemma presented to man to determine his ultimate destiny, but a gospel of “heaven” or “hell” destinies speaks of oneself, of the circumstances of the self, and ultimately of the glory of oneself.

    Christ himself never promised “heaven” as the destiny for his followers. In fact he used the terms, “everlasting life,” and “eternal life.” “And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.” (1 John 2:25) He also defined those terms explicitly without ever mentioning “heaven.” Jesus in fact promised that “heaven” will pass away.

    Indeed the word of God explicitly defines the promises of eternal life and everlasting life which were made of Christ himself to all who believe in him.

    “This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” John 17:3

    “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.” 1 John 5:20

    By his words we understand that the eternal life we have or lack, “after death” as you write, is not the continuation of man’s maturity but it is either communion with Christ or separation from him. He will separate everything from himself that is not holy because he is holy.

    Christianity is not a religion that plots the course of man’s maturity to some point where he is prematurely determined fit for reward or destruction. The purpose of the judgment is not to reward or punish man, but to honor and glorify Christ. “That no flesh should glory in his presence.”

    What can we say then of a gospel that preaches the law, man’s transgression thereof (sin), and the consequences for him with Christ only as a “fix” for man’s dilemma in order to get man to some destiny that is made to be more desirable than Christ himself? It is most vendible to those who savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

    But Jesus said, “Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.” “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.” “Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”

    It is written that the, “Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.”

    The judgment against those who reject Christ is just because they have made themselves enemies of God. They *hate* God (John 3:20). They have trodden under foot the Son of God, and counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith they were sanctified, an unholy thing, and done despite unto the Spirit of grace. Their error was not an omission of a mature decision. It was one of conscious evil with malice.

  11. Ben Maulis said

    You cannot “find” God. He has found you.

    Jesus said, “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

    The prophet Zechariah spoke and said:

    Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD. And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. Zec 2:10-11

    Even as the Lord himself promised:

    But [as] truly [as] I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD. Numbers 4:21

    Furthermore, the prophet Isaiah spoke and said:

    Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14

    This was fulfilled according to the word of Matthew:

    Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:22-23

    Indeed, even as John wrote:

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:1,14

  12. Maz said

    Stanley: Do you realise that eternity is actually the absence of time. In fact, eternity exists already…God is there. We live on this earth IN linear time, but God lives in eternity, but that doesn’t mean they are separate places.
    70 years is time, and eternity……is something else! So you cannot compare them by size.
    And Paul did speak of a visit to the third heaven which he could not speak about when he returned. Apparently he may have died, but he saw things that were not earthly.

    Society would not put pressure on you to find God, a lot of society don’t even want God themselves.
    If anyone was going to put pressure on you to find God, it would be Christians….or perhaps the cults who have their roots in Christian theology but have wandered somewhat from the truth.
    But Christians cannot force anyone to come to Jesus Christ, only God can reach the heart of sinful man, and man has to respond.

    How have you tried to find God?

  13. Maz said

    Ben Maulis: #8?

  14. Kash said

    Stanley,
    Why would God bother to create humans at all? Because He wanted a part of His creation to interact with Him in love. The immensity of the galaxy is too much for us to comprehend, just as the infiniteness of God is impossible to understand. But we can experience the immense love of God through His son Jesus Christ. Our omniscient/omnipotent God created us to interact with Him and His creation in love. Seventy years (give or take a few) is the average time allotted for us to learn how to do this. THis is how humanity is unique from the rest of creation. I doubt I can answer your questions as to why that 70 years should determine our eternity, and I can see how a “fundamentalist” vision of hell versus heaven would make it seem unfair. Paul speaks of the elect. To me that means that some of us are born with a desire to know God and some of us even manage to find Him. I happen to be the only member of my immediate family that is a Christian, or even beleives in God in any specific way. Thank God He would not let me rest until I found him. I pray daily that others in my family will come to HIm, but know that it is useless to try and scare them into it with the threat of Hell (which they don’t believe in!) My eternity will be in the presence of God, their eternity may or may not be depending on what happens in their own souls. Paul says “Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.” (1cor13:12)

    Don’t let an imcomplete knowledge of eternity keep you from eternal love…start with learning for yourself what Jesus says about God and the rest will fall into place with study and the help of the Holy Spirit.

    Kash

  15. F. L. A. said

    Welcome to the site, Stanley.
    If becoming a Christian is the route you wish to travel, then just start off by learning the basics and their commandments. Attending bible study groups can help you to fill in the blanks, in time, but do not just attend one group, visit many for comparison and focus on any similarities that you find. Older priest,pastors,reverends,ministers,etc.etc. are better than young eager men fresh out of Seminary/Missionary Schools, as they are sometimes a little too pushy,being so “filled with the spirit” and come off as annoying theological salesmen.

    According to John, anyway.

  16. Ben Maulis said

    Maz,

    If man is created with three parts corresponding to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, can you elaborate on how they correspond? Which one is which? An apple has three parts. Was it also made in the image of God?

    Besides, the trichotomous anthropology does not have any unity as you say. The “kingdom now” theology demands the *separability* of the spirit from the soul and the insignificance of the body in order to make the resurrection of none effect.

    A definitive anthropology is besides the point, and I certainly do not want to enter into an argument about it. That would be profitless. I was merely pointing out that those who forswear the resurrection have a motivation to establish trichotomous anthropology because it is necessary to their doctrine.

    Again, a trichotomous anthropology is necessary to make the resurrection insignificant. The insignificance of the resurrection is essential to Kingdom Now theology and to the significance of popular preachers that minister messages of prosperity and healing.

    Tell me this. Do they minister the hope of it now or in the resurrection? How much would you say of popular ministry directs people to put their hope in the resurrection and how much directs people to put their hope in this life? But Paul wrote, “If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.” The prosperity preachers do not preach this misery. Their ministry depends on the dead not rising.

  17. ADB said

    Ben,

    I’m glad that I’m not the only one who really understands that resurrection is the ultimate end game. It’s interesting that if you really pay attention to what the NT says, it isn’t so much that “we go to heaven” as it is that heaven comes here. That’s the clear impression from Revelation 21.

    Best Wishes

  18. Maz said

    Ben: I’m not sure that I agree with ‘Kingdom Now’ theology, and I have never heard of trichotomous anthropology, but Paul speaks of the whole as being ‘spirit, soul and body’.
    We are one person, but you must agree that when we die and this body goes to dust, that we continue our existence in a spiritual form. Our body goes in the grave but our spirit returns to God. I have been taught that the soul is our mind, emotions and our will. Adam when he was created became a LIVING soul when God breathed spirit into him.
    How do you see the soul and spirit of a man?

  19. Maz said

    ADB: What do you say about Paul wanting rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord….Who would be Heaven?

  20. Kash said

    Has anyone else noticed that most of the images we have of Hell actually come from references to the endtimes?

  21. Maz said

    Jesus spoke about it too. ”Gnashing of teeth”. ”Where their worm dies not.”

  22. Kash said

    Yes, but “gnashing of teeth” comes from when he was speaking of separating sheep from goats at the end of the age. And “where their worm dies not” Jesus is quoting from Isaiah, again, talking of the final judgement.

  23. Maz said

    But where are they ”gnashing” their teeth? Does this not signify torment?
    And where does their ”worm die not” but in eternal hell?
    And what of Gehenna?

  24. Maz said

    There is also the parable that Jesus gave of the rich man and Lazarus. Their two destinys in eternity were quite different. The rich man ended up in torment ‘in the flame’.

  25. Stanley said

    Well, is there any experience to be had in the eternity that is actually outside of time?

  26. Maz said

    While we live here on this earth in our bodies we cannot step out of time, but we can enter into the Presence of the Lord as we seek Him in prayer. I find it easier to experience His Presence when I go to Church and we begin to Praise and worship Him. You can actually ‘feel’ His Presence by your spirit. (Not something I can explain, YOU would have to ‘feel’ His Presence for yourself). That does not mean to say that God is not there when we don’t ‘feel’ Him. He is Omnipresent. But when I enter into that worship and Praise, He makes His Presence known to me.

  27. Maz said

    #24, see Luke 16 v 24.

  28. Kasha said

    Its not that I don’t think there is a hell, I just wonder where we get our ideas about people dying and immediately waking up in hell if they are not “saved”. I’m not saying I don’t think there is a consequence for unbelief, but haven’t we mixed up the final judgement with our images of immediate damnation? Just curious what other people think.

  29. Stanley said

    I could explain it, but its not going to be a theory that you want to hear.

  30. Stanley said

    29@ 26, not 28

  31. Maz said

    Kasha: I think we get our idea about waking up in hell after death from the experiences people have had when they have died. Some seem to pass into a beautiful place they believe is Heaven and often will see relatives or others. Some have a terrible experience of entering into a thick darkness and a feeling of absolute terror. Some see the fire burning with people inside who….well, I think you get the picture.

    It is obvious from the story of Lazarus and the rich man that the rich man’s experience after death was in a firy place of torment. I would say it was hell, I don’t think there is any inbetween place. But we also read in Revelation that in the end death and hell is cast into the lake of fire. Personally I find it an awful thought for anyone to end up there, but I can’t deny what the Bible says. That’s why I am driven to evangelise as and when I can. We speak the message and it is up to the hearers to believe it or not.
    Sometimes, when people don’t or won’t believe the gospel message, I think to myself….if only I could show them….if only they could see.
    That’s a few of my thots about it.

  32. Maz said

    #31 what I meant by these experiences is of people who came back from the dead….which I omitted to mention!

  33. Ben Maulis said

    Maz,

    Re: #18, I am not trying to upset your understanding of man. There is no doubt that he is whole in body, soul, and spirit. I am not denying the scriptures. My comments yesterday were in regard to those who teach that he is a spirit (period). “Who has a soul, and just happens to live in a body.” You are not correct in completeness with regard to our dying and continuing only in spiritual form. That idea disregards the resurrection. Was Jesus’s body left in the tomb? Was it his spirit only that afterwards appeared to believers? What was it that Thomas touched? Now with regard to the question, “how are the dead raised up and with what body do they come?” I refer you to 1 Cor. 15:35 and onward. Obviously “that which is sown is not that which is raised,” so dust does return to dust but that does not mean we have no body in the resurrection.

  34. Maz said

    Ben: Paul speaks of wanting to be ”present with the Lord” after he died. In what form would he be in? This would be before the resurrection.

    Jesus rose bodily. When He appeared to the disciples in the upper room (doors were closed) Jesus said to them ”See my hands and my feet that it is I myself….handle me and see….does a spirit have flesh and bones as you see me have?” He was not a spirit yet He could walk through doors.

    Jesus had a body, but not flesh and blood….He had shed His blood on the cross, so what was flowing in His veins? Some say it was the glory of God. But He was alive in a physical body.

    The resurrection body is an incorrupt body, one that cannot die again. But as to the nature of it I cannot say for certain….only what the Bible tells us.

  35. Maz said

    Ben: Another thot too, we are first a spirit who dwells in a vessel….a temple….a body. The real us lives inside this physical body and when we die, we leave it.

  36. Ben Maulis said

    Now as for hell: According to the scriptures, hell is temporary. The lake of fire is eternal. heaven also is temporary, but eternal life is, well, eternal.

    I can elaborate on this a bit, but it’s about three pages so I would refer you the website linked on my name. Go to articles, and the one titled “Heaven & Hell” here: http://www.maulis.com/articles/hell

    Remember it is written: “Death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them…. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.” “Heaven” also, “shall pass away.”

  37. Maz said

    Ben: Hell is not actually temporary….hell is eternal and will exist eternally within the lake of fire as the scriptures say. No one who goes into hell will leave.

    Heaven will be our eternal home. I believe that the Jewish people will one day inherit the earth as was promised right at the beginning. I may be wrong about this, but as we will be populating Heaven someone has to live upon the new earth. In the end both will dwell together, but I havn’t really figured out how this will be. Maybe you will have some thots and scriptures on this.

    As to Heaven passing away, I think this is the starry heaven not Gods eternal Home. Maybe you could give me scriptures if I’m wrong here.

    If death and hell deliver up their dead and then is cast into the lake of fire, then wouldn’t hell be empty when it is cast into the lake? What does this verse really mean?

    Will go onto the link maybe I shall be enlightened more there.

  38. Maz said

    Ben: I’v gone onto your link and have read some of what you say. I would agree with most of it, but I shall have to read the rest later as I havn’t time now. I have studied quite a lot about the end times, but there are some things I havn’t quite figured out yet. I’m not too concerned about whether I live in heaven, on earth or the New Jerusalem….but I do want to spend eternity with my Lord.
    Also, whether hell or the lake of fire, the place of the unsaved dead will be eternal….I wish it wasn’t but that’s what I believe the scriptures teach.

  39. Stanley said

    How is that benevolent? If you loved your child, no matter what they did during the course of their life, would you condemn them to an eternity in hell? Then, does God not love us as much as I will love my children (when I have them).

  40. Ben Maulis said

    What I mean by hell being temporary is that it is a temporary destination. It is the scriptures that tell us that hell will deliver up the dead to be judged. Hell will be cast into the lake of fire, and so also will those whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life.

    The scriptures do not make a distinction between different heavens clear. The same word “ouranos” is used. Paul once mentions a “third heaven” or “tritos ouranos.” He refers to it as paradise or “paradeisos” which is the word Jesus used speaking to one of the men crucified with him. Paul’s mention of it is specifically vague and untelling. It is certainly knowledge we do not have.

    Jesus said, “heaven and earth will pass away,” and in John’s vision he saw exactly this: “the first heaven and the first earth were passed away.” I am not denying that there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

    As for our eternal home, the scriptures do not say that “Heaven” will be our home. It is written, “For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.”

    Our home then is the resurrected body. It comes from heaven, and it will be in heaven, but “heaven” is not a specific destiny of paradise to which it is limited. Rather “in the heavens” is interpreted as “the universe of everything,” because surely we will return to the earth after the first resurrection and before the second resurrection. If we are on the earth at that time we are also still “in the heavens” if we understand heaven this way and not as a confined paradise.

    At this point I risk attempting to explain many issues of eschatology which I cannot. My main motivation for writing on the subject is not to explain things I am ignorant of, but to distinguish a gospel that presents man with a contrived dilemma of reward and punishment from the true gospel in which Christ and not man has preeminence.

  41. Ben Maulis said

    Stanley,

    Jesus said to some, “Ye are of your Father the devil.” How then are they God’s children?

  42. Kasha said

    Stanley,

    The following is from a website you might find interesting. geneva.rutgers.edu/src/christianity/heavenhell.html

    “The standard Christian position is that anyone who rejects Christ will end up in hell. Does this mean that only Christians can be saved? The Catholic church and many Protestant churches don’t think so. They believe it is possible that Christ can come to someone in an inward and spiritual way, even if they’ve never heard of Christ. Thus someone can be an “anonymous Christian.” That is, they can know Christ spiritually without realizing it it Christ.

    Most Christians also believe that God’s judgement will take into account the sorts of opportunities a person had to learn the truth. A person who has never heard the Gospel can’t be said to have rejected Christ. An even worse situation occurs when Christians have persecuted other groups. A person who sees Christ as a persecutor has hardly had a real exposure to the Gospel.

    [Historical note: It’s worth noting that two major classical Protestant writers thought it was possible for non-Christians to be saved: Zwingli and Wesley. Calvin did not.]”

    End of quote.

    Hope this gives you a more balanced perspective.

  43. Ben Maulis said

    Nonsense.

  44. Kasha said

    Ben,
    Yes, probably, as the writer on that page goes on to say. But still, if thinking about it will get Stanley to seriously consider Christ (instead of just trying to “get our goat” as I begin to suspect he is doing) it seems worth mentioning. I have great faith in the Holy Spirit doing the rest if he would simply open himself up to the possibility.

  45. F. L. A. said

    What about those who have had their bodies destroyed in some way or were eaten by predators[Thus, no Christian burial or body]?
    How would a man eaten by a huge shark in the middle of the sea be resurrected?

  46. Maz said

    Stanley # 39. If you told your child not to run in the road or he would might get run over by a truck, because you love him and don’t want him to be hurt, and he disobeyed did it anyway and he got killed would that be your fault?

  47. F. L. A. said

    But Maz, as a DEITY, not only would you know in advance what was going to happen[And thus take measures to stop it if so desired.], but also you would have the ability to bring said hypothetical child back to life again and give them the “I TOLD you so! Now, are you going to listen to me from now on?” lecture.

  48. Maz said

    Ben: #40. You quoted this verse, “For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.” It says we have a building of God…..in the heavens.”
    The thing is are we talking about the heavens where the stars and galaxies exist or are we actually talking about Heaven where God dwells. Can this pass away, seeing that it is in eternity and not in time, therefore cannot have an end.
    I note your explanation of this but not sure if I agree about this ”universe of everything”.

    #42. I don’t agree with the idea in your quote that someone can be saved without knowing the Christ. We have to believe in our heart and confess with our mouth, we can’t do this without knowing what we are doing.

  49. Maz said

    F.L.A: But you see, God DID know what was going to happen even before Adam sinned, and He HAS taken measures to save us from the penalty of sin…He sent Jesus, who took our punishment so we don’t have to suffer. But why won’t people accept that? Why won’t you? God can’t go against your will and MAKE you love Him. Would you want Him to? And He couldn’t just step in and stop man from using his free will, or else He would be the Great Puppeteer pulling our puppet strings and we’d have to do whatever He decided we should do.
    I’v told you what He has done for you…..it is now up to you to believe and accept it. It is YOUR choice, it is not Gods fault if you choose to reject Christ’s sacrifice for you and find out when it is too late that it was all true.

  50. Maz said

    F.L.A: God is able to give someone a new body in the resurrection. ”Clothed upon…” Paul called it. Read 1 Cor: 15 v 35-54. You don’t think He is going to use the old dust that was left in the coffin do you?

  51. Maz said

    F.L.A: What I meant in #50 was that God does not need anything of the old body to give us a new resurrected body.

  52. F. L. A. said

    I asked that question about resurrection[Christian reincarnation?] simply to see what answers I could get for it.
    You know, in Europe when the practice of cremation was reintroduced, the Church condemned it as barbaric and sacreligious, because the pagans used to do it and they actually believed that the body had to remain intact and properly buried.

    We have talked about my unacceptance of Christianity and Christianities unacceptance of me in the past, Maz.
    Remember?

  53. Maz said

    F.L.A: And I’v said before that I don’t give up easily.

    I would rather be buried myself.

  54. F. L. A. said

    I know, my little decapitated Army Ant[Huge sharp-toothed grin].

  55. F. L. A. said

    I imagine everyone may be getting tired of reading just our comments.[?]

  56. Maz said

    F.L.A: I’m crunching on pretzels at the moment so I must still have my head!

    #55. They may find them amusing. 😉

  57. ADB said

    F.L.A.,

    Resurrection is a context that many Christians don’t actually buy into now. They talk endlessly about a soul that escapes the body, and about going to heaven as being the same as resurrection. True resurrection is giving new and better life, what Paul referred to as “the perishable putting on imperishability” in 1 Corinthians 15. One prominent NT writer calls resurrection “life after life after death.” This relates to burial vs. cremation only in that God values our bodies as well. When I perform funerals, I have begun emphasizing that the grave of the person is not his or her final resting place. Certainly if we believe that God created everything from nothing we believe that he could recreate from ashes or shark dung, or anything else for that matter. This is different than reincarnation in that with reincarnation as I understand it the person comes back to earth in another form over and over again. With resurrection, those in Christ are given new life in imperishable, incorruptible bodies and will live with and worhsip him for eternity. As you can probably tell there are lots of differences between Christians about how the “end of time” will come, but what I’ve said about resurrection is as straightforward and orthodox as I know how to make it. If you or John are up to a pretty lengthy read, I’d suggest “The Resurrection of the Son of God” by N.T. Wright.

    Best Wishes

  58. John said

    Thank you for your wisdom and the book recommendation ADB, I will look it up. Ferox can only read what I bring in anyway, so what choice is there?
    For us, the idea of reincarnation is not nesessarily limited to a return to life on earth[obviously, as you know that we have our own Heavens and Hells]. It’s just defined by us as a continuation of spiritual existence, here on earth, in the afterlife, in another alien world somewhere else in the universe, etc.
    We see our bodies as, for lack of a better descriptive term, “Earth Suits”. When the suit gets old and wears out, or gets broken too bad to fix up,etc., you leave it behind and move on…
    An observation; it seems that whenever we kill something, whenever something dies, the wind blows…if even faintly. We believed that this was so that the spirit of the dead could ride off into the afterlife on the breeze. Have you ever noticed anything like this?
    Perhaps it’s just my wishful thinking…..[smile].

  59. Stanley said

    @46

    Unrelated.

  60. Maz said

    Ben #36: I have re-read the end of Revelation. I already knew that the Bride of Christ (the Church) dwelt in the New Jerusalem and of it’s ”coming down out of heaven”, so I am going into this subject again. It does seem that heaven is not our final abode, but being taught from Sunday School that when we die we go to heaven, it’s hard to get rid of the concept. So you have helped to remind me of the truth of scripture.
    Abd by the way, this city appears to be about 5 miles square….doesn’t seem big enough for the whole Church….any comment on that?

    It speaks of there being no need of light of the sun and moon (as there will be no night there and the Lamb is the light) so this would mean there would be no heavens as in stars and galaxies. (I’ll miss looking up into the starry sky…but what will be there will outshine any star I guess!)
    Maybe you have something to say on your site about this but if you want to make a short comment here it may be helpful for others.

  61. F. L. A. said

    Maz, have you ever heard of how many demons could fit and dance on the head of a pin? Perhaps it’s like that for the “saved” souls as well, thus meaning that perhaps an area 5 miles square[Are those Roman miles?] would be sufficient in size to hold this undisclosed number of souls.

  62. Ben Maulis said

    @#60 I can only wish I knew more. I do know that God has called me to preach the gospel, and that this commission and not exegesis in eschatology will be my focus until the end of the age. The preeminence of Christ and his gospel is evident in his instructions. I believe John’s vision, in the which are some things hard to be understood, serves us by causing us to grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. I do sometimes covet knowledge that “puffeth up,” to be the “answer man,” but really: one thing I know.

    I encourage study of Revelation for just the reason you stated: this book, as well as “all scripture” rids us of misconceptions about the truth. We shall know the truth. We are reminded that Christ is the truth, and that all things are from him and to him. For that reason I grieve when I hear the “how to get to heaven” gospel. I grieve not because I feel the need to strive about words to no profit or dispute the semantics of “heaven” (of which I know very little), but because that gospel presents a reward that is clearly an alternative to Christ himself. That gospel is all about man, about how man can fix his situation, about how man can get himself the goods. That gospel relegates Christ to a convenient “fix” for man’s problem.

    My site is mostly about preaching the gospel in my town. I live in a small town in rural Nevada where I’m raising my family, part of the local church, working, and ministering God’s word publicly through street preaching. Sometimes I write something that is motivated out of my pursuit to preach the gospel more perfectly. I recently wrote about the resurrection after our pet bird was killed by a hawk. http://www.maulis.com/articles/pearl

    Yesterday I went down to the highway during rush hour with my youngest son. I held a sign the reads: “Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.” On the other side it reads, “He rose again the third day according to the scriptures,” because it is his will for all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. The salvation we preach is not “getting to go to heaven”, but it is the gospel whereby Christ shall receive nothing less than that for which he paid – the joy that was set before him. He is the truth that he wills all men to come to the knowledge of, and this is eternal life: that they may know him, the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. We do not preach of man and his circumstances, but of Christ and his glory. The blood of Christ redeemed us to God proving *him* worthy of power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

  63. Maz said

    F.L.A: Ha ha…….I don’t think so!

  64. Maz said

    Ben: I would say Amen to that. I want people to know Jesus……He is wonderful to have in your life even before death takes us to the place He has prepared for us. Eternity is not our reward, it is our destiny where we will spend it with our Savior. I can’t wait to get to…..paradise….wherever…..but it is Jesus I want to see not the streets of gold.

  65. ADB said

    Maz,

    Been too busy the last few days to get on the internet. In response to your #60, I think to begin trying to calculate the dimensions of the city is to miss the point of the text. We in the 21st century need to try to understand the world of the Biblical writers. John wasn’t trying to tell us how big the city was, but in that world numbers meant things- and doubly so in Revelation. Consider the numbers- 12 was a good number and 1,000 is also a good number and one that is used to infer vast numbers so to say 12,000 stadia is another way of stating the perfection of the city and making it cubed even further emphasizes the point. Apocalyptic literature like this simply can’t be taken literally all the time. That’s not to say it’s “myth,” but simply that it is a writing style that most of us aren’t familiar with.

    Best Wishes

  66. Stanley said

    Social context be dam*ed, its fact.

  67. Maz said

    ADB: I understand that numbers do have meanings in the Bible but the measurements for the city were in furlongs and cubits (in the KJV), they seem to be very exacting dimensions.
    Nevertheless, what is important is that we will be there with the Lord. I shan’t be looking at the city, I shall be gazing at my Lord and being so thankful that I am there with Him.

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