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Should Christians protest a political convention?

Posted by truthtalklive on August 25, 2008

On todays show Stu interviews Bob Enyart. For more information please visit http://www.enyart.com/.

After the shiow please listen to the pod cast at www.wtru.com

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33 Responses to “Should Christians protest a political convention?”

  1. Kash said

    Of course Christians can protest. Hopefully they would do so in a dignified, non violent manner. I marched in protest of the Iraq war during the 2004 Republican convention, as I take Jesus literally when he preached against violence. I would like to see the democratic party embrace a more consistent pro-life ethic, by including the rights of the unborn along with the other rights they defend. So protest away!

    I do, however, take exception at the way Bob vilifies Obama. Just because he disagrees with him on the issue of abortion does not mean he needs to call him a liar and a thief. And I found it ironic that he spoke of when Jesus called people liars. I assume he is referring to Matthew 23, when Jesus took to task the religious leaders of his day, the pharisees who were fond of judging other people according to the law. In those same passages Jesus says, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces.” When we claim that we know someone elses heart, and say, “He is not a Christian!” are we not in danger of exposing ourselves to the very judgement we proclaim on the other person? Bob should read Matthew 23 again and realize Jesus was not talking to the “lowly sinners”, but to the religious authorites of his time.

    SO protest Obama all you want, this is America, thank God. But be careful of your soul when you venture to judge his.

    Kash

  2. Camille said

    We are presented with 2 canidates for President. One has stated he is for the sanctity of life, the right of a baby to be born; and the other has stated he supports abortion. On this iussue ALONE we as believers in Jesus Christ have only one choice: McCain, because of his stand for LIFE. I have heard many Christians say they will write in a vote or not vote and I would say this to that way of thinking…
    Ross Perot was the 3rd party canidate that helped Clinton get elected and to not vote or write in a vote will help Obama get elected. And then he will be appointing very liberal judges to the supreme court.

  3. Andre said

    Yes, Christians can protest, but it should go without saying that this mode of “conversation” would represent Christ appropriately.

    I would probably not go as far as Bob to condemn Obama’s claim that he is a Christian. From my perspective, he does certainly appear to have a miguided idea of what it means to be a Christian and an apparent ignorance of the word of God. He appears to be trying to separate his politics from his relationship with God. We know of course this is not possible to any sincere believer and to anyone who recognizes Christ as not just Savior, but Lord also. Why would I not condemn him even though I disagree? Simply, I don’t know him. I don’t know if what he is saying comes from ignorance of the word of God or rebellion against it.

    Secondly, Abortion is not the only evil. There is the evil of lying and deceit that would send young men and women in to harm’s way (costing many lives) for motives that are not entirely pure. There is also the evil of having a biasness toward certain economic or cultural classes.

    We should protest politically. Unfortunately, the church as whole has been more focused on impacting political candidates than the people they serve. If we impact the people, the people will change the politics. Go ye into all the world…
    Jesus did not seek after the rulers of his day to impact the world, he went to the people.

    Andre’

  4. dave said

    wake up america, this guy obama is as much a christian as the great oprah new age winfrey , all his views represent universalism , all roads lead to heaven, what did jesus say Iam the the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me.u can’t get to heaven but by jesus and obama supports abortion and gay civil unions and rejected the born alive amendment, what kind of man is this obama, God please help us make the right decision on election day amen dave in tennessee

  5. Kash said

    Sigh. It always seems to come back to people who think the only issue that is pro-life is abortion. It is simply not that easy. Often the same candidate that claims to be against abortion is in favor of the death penalty. (Bush executed more and pardoned fewer criminals than any other governor). The same candidate that claims to be against abortion is in favor of expanding and extending war (which kills both born and unborn children). The same candidate that claims to be against abortion seems to be intent on continuing policies that have caused the number of children living in poverty to increase over the past 8 years, whereas before that it had decreased for many years. More children are born without health insurance than are aborted every year in this country. I could go on and on. It is because of my faith that I worry about these things. And so no, I do not think it is quite so clear to a Christian as to which candidate Jesus would want me to vote for.

    I don’t ask that everyone agree with me, I just ask that we not question the sincerity of fellow believers’ faith based on whom they are voting for! We need to respect each others’ walk with the Lord and have conversations based on mutual respect and a sincere desire to do what we can to help a fallen world while we wait for His return.

    Kash

  6. Maz said

    As an outsider I wonder why there are so many questions on this Christian site about politics. It seems all consuming in America and even the Church. I know politics is important and you are coming up to important elections but there are many other subjects needed to discuss about Christian and spiritual things. Aren’t these more important?

  7. Brad said

    Kash, surely you don’t equate executions from the death penalty to death of the unborn by abortion, do you? Or do you?

  8. bookert said

    I didn’t expect to hear the rabble screaming “baby killer” until October. Wow, this is depressing. Doesn’t anyone remember that McCain was pro-choice before he decided to run for president? Doesnt anyone find that the least bit fishy? Hasn’t anyone noticed that Bush says one thing and does another? That eight years later the practice of abortion is still intact? Do you really think America is ready to return to the days of back alley butchers and cash under the table? The solution to this problem will be scientific, not emotional. And Stu, stop pretending that you really care for the lives of the unborn. You’re not convincing. Further, where were you when the Iraqi babies were being blown to pieces by our “smart bombs.” The cliche is bearing out – Chrisitians care about children, right up to the point where they’re born.

  9. Maz said

    Bookert: ”Christians care about children, right up to the point where they’re born.”

    And I could say, evolutionists don’t care about children before or after birth.

    Which statement would be correct? Actually neither of them.

    It is not a good idea to generalise about any group of people.

  10. Kash said

    Brad,
    Killing someone is killing someone. Either we believe it is ok to do it in some circumstances, or we don’t. If we think it is ok to do it in some circumstances, then we have to understand that the pro choice people think an unborn child is one of those circumstances, and we have to stop calling them murderers and baby killers. I admit that I am not entirely consistent on this point either (only Jesus is consistently pro life), I am just trying to point out that being against abortion but for the death penalty means that one does think that killing living humans is understandable in certain circumstances, so it doesn’t help to call people who are for abortion evil murderers. We are all just choosing where to draw the line. So while I think it is perfectly Christian to protest and try to call attention to the fact that abortion is a horrible travesty and should not be performed, I think we need to change hearts and opinions and the law will follow. We can’t do that by vilifying anyone who is presently pro choice or chooses to vote on other issues besides abortion at this time.

    Kash

  11. Ben Maulis said

    Christians must not protest. We must speak the word of God and not ourselves. “We preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord. God himself protests wickedness and iniquity, but his is not a “politcal” protest. His message is not, “so and so is evil.” His message is, “Repent and believe the gospel.”

  12. Maz said

    How can we preach the gospel without speaking out against the evils of this age?

  13. Brad said

    I believe there is a marked difference between the execution of a convicted criminal for a crime punishable by death under the laws of this country, and the abortion of an unborn child.

    The first is being duly punished for a crime they committed, a crime which they knew could lead to the death penalty if convicted (since the death penalty isn’t exactly “new”).

    Can you please tell me – what is the second being punished for?

  14. Mike S. said

    For being an inconvenience caused by stupid and irresponsible behavior…

  15. Mike S. said

    Sad 😦

  16. Brad said

    Yes, Mike, that’s my point. To equate the 2, and say “killing someone is killing someone”, is too general at best, and wrong at worst. One isn’t done on a whim, or just b/c we feel like it to avoid some consequences that may occur in the future – it’s done AS a consequence to actions that have a predetermined penalty for them. If you don’t want the penalty (death), then you don’t do the actions that merit that penalty. It’s pretty simple.

    The other, however, is not in response to an action that merits a penalty. It is something that can be CHOSEN, but isn’t necessary. And it still kills a human life.

    To equate the 2, which you have done, is wrong. You may disagree or agree with abortion – either is your right. But equating them, really means you haven’t done your homework.

    Am I for the death penalty? Yes, I am. Am I against abortion? Yes, I am. Do those positions have to be mutually exclusive? No.

  17. Ben Maulis said

    Do “speak out against the evils of this age.” But if you are speaking your own words, then you are not speaking his words and you do not represent the Lord. “But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.”

    As for judgment of politicians and such, Jesus said, “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged,” but he also said, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

    We ought to judge with righteous judgment. If I judge with righteous judgment, I am not afraid to receive the same and to be judged according to how I judge.

    For example, we are commanded to judge the spirits and not to be fooled by anyone who is of the world. “They speak of the world and the world heareth them.” “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”

    Judge with righteous judgment: “Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

    It is written that, “if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his,” and “if there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”

  18. Ben Maulis said

    Judge with righteous judgment: “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

  19. Ben Maulis said

    “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”

    I will tell you I was overjoyed when I discovered that God was willing to reveal his judgment now. That I did not have to wait until big some day to know the verdict, and that I did not have to live in fear of the judgment any longer. What a miserable condition that is to have justice withheld from oneself. He said, “Your time is alway ready,” and “behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day!”

    We have been told to despise judgment — that judgment comes out of a flawed temperament and personality. You may say, “Don’t judge me.” But I say: “Get some judgment!”

    We rightly ought to fear the judgment, but when it comes there is either salvation and eternal life or fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    Now hear what the judge has to say:

    “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

  20. Barney said

    Wouldn’t it behoove Christians to appeal to God, the all powerful changer of hearts and minds, to stop abortions than to appeal to Caesar?

    Once again we see that Stu’s idea of Christian idealism is really about politics. When will we see Stu running for office? Like father like son?

  21. Chris C. said

    How much of a punishment is it to be casually let go from the world via lethal injection as opposed to spending your entire life in a tiny cell?

    How high of an error rate in executions is acceptable? None? One per one hundred?

    Is a fetus which cannot survive on its own equal in worth to full grown fourty year old human? If so, where is the line drawn with other animals? Many fetuses are aborted before the reach even the complexity of a cockroach or rat. If killing those babies is wrong, should we be concerned about killing rodents and bugs too?

  22. Kash said

    Brad,
    You are missing my point. I am not trying to convince you to be for abortion or against the death penalty. I happen to be against both, since I believe that would be the position of Jesus. You are free to disagree. I am simply saying that those on the pro-life side of the abortion question should not argue from a stance of “We are the true Christians and anyone who doesn’t see it like we do can’t really be a Christian.” I am sure that you do not feel that way, but many on this blog often make comments that appear to support that untenable position.

    As far as death as a means of punishment: we have all earned death through the law (see Romans Chapter 3, beginning verse 9). Once we execute according to our law, murder a person born or unborn, or kill through the collateral damage of war, we forever rob that person of eternal salvation if they have not yet come to Christ. Thus I don’t think that killing unborn babies is any worse or any better than executing a criminal, from God’s point of view. Obviously, we humans struggle with this, because our emotions get in the way and we want to justify our actions and we often kill out of fear (sometimes self defense, sometimes vengeance, but all rooted in fear). Perfect salvation would drive out all fear, but few of us are able to attain this, myself included.

    Again, I elaborate on this not to convince you of my view, but so that you (and others on this blog) might be more understanding of those who see the election in different terms than Camille, who sees only 1 pro life candidate, 1 pro abortion candidate. She wrote, “On this iussue ALONE we as believers in Jesus Christ have only one choice: McCain, because of his stand for LIFE.” I do not see that McCain stands for LIFE any more than Obama does, he just stands for different life.

    Again, only Jesus is consistently for LIFE and life eternal. Any U.S. president is going to be a compromise anyway, because we are electing a leader for a nation to protect a nation’s interests, not a savior-servant to rescue us from the death of sin. Thankfully we already have a savior, and He’s much more powerful than any world leader.

    Kash

  23. John said

    Chris, I believe that the majority of posters here are mainly only concerned with the sanctity of HUMAN life, underdeveloped or otherwise. I only hear Vegans and P.E.T.A. standing up for the lives within chicken eggs, Americas favorite breakfast embryo.
    It’s a strange doublestandard.

  24. John said

    I care about the lives of rodents and bugs, but then, I’m unusual.

  25. ADB said

    John,
    Seems to be no double standard to me. From a judeo-christian perspective, humanity was the pinnacle of creation and was made caretaker over it. For us, humans life is not equal to animal life. As caretakers/stewards of creation we are responsible for our care for animal life and the environment. We may, Biblically, kill and eat animals for food but it’s not ours to indiscriminantly kill them. I find it curious that you would not distinguish between human life and animal life.

    Best wishes

  26. F. L. A. said

    ADB, it is because we believe that humans are but another animal, abet, more intelligent than most of the others and full of more potential. This is not to imply that humanity is “degraded down” to the level of “animals”, but that for us, other animals are as people too. We observe much evil and insane behavior in humanity that many other animals would never commit, thus destroying for us any notion of mankind being any pinnacle of creation[Unless one develops a less than favorable opinion of said creator], worthy of being put upon that high pedestal that many theological belief systems seem prone to do.

  27. John said

    ADB, as far as being caretakers/stewards of the earth, I think that people are shirking their responsibilities. I pick up so much trash in and out of the water, and have seen much senseless killing[I’m talking about non-human life,just so you know] for the pleasure of being cruel, because “God made animals for us to use as we want.”, deforestation and all manner of habitat destruction because “God said everything is here for us.”.I have spoken with many Christians who have this idea of “It doesn’t matter how much we mess up or use up things because one day God/Jesus will come back and make everything all better again.”.
    The problem with this idea[even for the Christian] is that knowbody is sure how long it’s going to be until that happens, and as you are well aware, people have been predicting this moment as about to happen again and again and again since ancient times when they first learned of the event!So things keep getting worse and worse because the majority of people are too stupid, too apathetic, or too irresponsible to do anything about improving things.Everybody just wants “someone else” to take care of everything. If a problem can be fixed by the efforts of a handful of people then something can be achieved, but if a problem takes the effort of a society to fix, nothing will happen. It almost makes me ashamed to be a human sometimes. The way humanity treats this planet you’d think worlds like ours were a dime a dozen.
    Alright, I’ll shut up about it now.

  28. ADB said

    John,
    What you have noticed is one of the drawbacks to too much emphasis on the end times stuff. When your view of the end of time is reduced to counting down the days until Jesus “beams you up” then there really is no calling to do anything. All of the various views of the end of time have strengths and weaknesses and one of the weaknesses of the view we know of as pre-tribulational premillenialism is that it can lead to simply waiting to be beamed up. In my opinion we were given dominion over the earth, but not ownership of it. To me Christianity gives us a calling to balanced environmentalism. Recycle as much as you can. See a trash can use it. Need gasoline, build a refinery, but do so in a manner that will have the least possible adverse environmental impact. Want to hunt or fish, go right ahead but don’t kill for the sake of killing, keep what you are going to eat, throw the rest back. Anyway, that’s my opinion at least.

  29. Maz said

    ADB: I agree with the environmental issue, I do my bit, but I,m not one of those that just sit back and wait for Jesus to ”beam me up”, altho I am waiting in anticipation of that day it spurs me on to reach as many people as I can with the gospel…this is our primary call, to reach the lost before it is too late. I think you label pre-trib’s and pre-mills too generally.

  30. Nino Baldino said

    Yes,since Christianity may soon be outlawed by the demoncrat party as a hate religion..I would say ..sure why not! Jesus never condemned the occupation of others..like the centuraian..company commander..its their hypocritical living that He condemned…if the parties do as they campaigned on ..then so bet it..if not..run and get a millstone.

  31. Maz said

    In Britain we are facing a threat by Islam that the governement here seem ignorant of. Letting so many Moslems into this country, whether most of them live peaceably or not, and allowing their mosques to be built all over the country, including a large one in our capital, in Regents Park, (where teachings go on that are flagrantly against our Christian democracy), is asking for trouble. I have yet again e-mailed my Member of Parliament about it. Christians need to voice their ‘fears’ about what is happening in their countries or we will lose our freedom……persicution will come…..but we can hold back the tide if we speak out now.

  32. Erik said

    I don’t think Christian should protest.

    No where in the NT does it say to protest.
    In fact, it says the opposite.
    Turn the other cheek.

    Live for Christ, Witness for Christ and Pray.
    Will we get persecuted? Yes we will. The Bible says so.

    Protesting does not bring people to Christ. It actually turns them off even more!

  33. Hi Erik –

    Just so you know….we’re not operating from this site anymore, but we do reference it often.

    Please visit us at http://www.truthtalklive.com.

    Thanks!
    Moderator

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