Christians & money during tough economic times!
Posted by truthtalklive on July 14, 2008
On today’s show Stu interviews Dan Celia with The Regency Foundation. The Regency Foundation, an affiliate and support organization to Philadelphia Biblical University , exists to help individuals and organizations plan, invest and give wisely. We are a planning service which is based on solid, consistent Christian values. Dan Celia is also the author of “All For The Master” a forty-day devotional on stewardship. For more information on Mr. Celia please visit http://www.regencyfoundation.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=12627. If you would like a podcast please visit www.wtru.com. As always Thanks for listening!
Have gas prices impacted your giving?
Welcome to TruthTalkLive.com! 
Ben Maulis said
How does “price” affect giving? If my “giving” were simply a certain amount of US dollars, then everyone and everything that affects the value of the US dollar would affect my “giving.” Monetary policy and inflation would ultimately determine how much I was really “giving.”
Some might suppose we can look at the account of the widow and her two mites and conclude that “God’s not into dollars, but he’s into percentages.” Using that kind of reasoning, the question might be whether or not we’re giving a smaller percentage of our income as a result of the value of the dollar going down and prices going up while incomes have not increased proportionally.
But what did Christ say of the widow? He said she cast in more than the others.
“For all [they] did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, [even] all her living.”
Was the two mites all her living? Immediately after this Christ spoke of the temple and its gifts and said, “[As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
Whatever adornment the two mites might purchase for the temple would certainly come to nought. If the two mites were all her living, then all her living would come to nought. But the widow had cast into the offering of God all that she had. Jesus pointed this out to his disciples so they would understand that God is not interested in a percentage of your “abundance” because what you consider to be “abundance” is only dust. Some people are willing to offer a percentage of their dust, but the Lord has made it clear that he demands us to forsake nothing less than “all.”
“Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.”
Boris said
According to Acts 5:1-11 God is a Marxist and any Christian who isn’t should be punished by death. Another part of the Bible Christians choose to ignore.
Brad said
Boris,
Just curious why you think God (and I suppose Christians who follow Him) is a Marxist?
You seem to have some extreme views on the Bible, Christianity, etc… Where did you derive your views? What are they based upon?
Boris said
Brad,
Well God appears to be a lot of different things depending on who was writing about him. In Acts he certainly appears to be a Marxist. The president of Fuller Theological Seminary, Richard Mouw thinks so too. He said he couldn’t wait to get to heaven so he could have time to read the entire works of Karl Marx. Will they be in heaven do you think Brad?
In my post I said Christians IGNORE God’s Marxist tendencies in Acts. They ignore his murderous, cantankerous, cruel, forgetful and otherwise unpleasant tendencies also. Where do I derive my views? From the Bible. Where do your derive yours? From what others have told you about the Bible. Right?
Brad said
No Boris, I derive my views from reading the Bible, studying the Bible, praying, and learning about what is written, in its historical and linguistic context. It doesn’t take a seminary degree, but it does take a desire to truly understand, and the time to devote to it.
I’m not really worried what Richard Mouw says. I don’t know exactly what he said, so I can’t comment. It does sound as if you base a lot of what you believe on what others have said, though. Is that right? Or do you have other basis for your beliefs? Bad church experiences growing up, etc…?
You have a lot of hostility, Boris. It’s evident in your writing.
Boris said
Brad,
If you knew anything at all about the Bible you would know there is no historical context for any of it. None of the major figures or events described in the Bible can be found in anything that could be considered a historical document. The fact that you haven’t discovered this yet proves you’ve gotten your ideas about the Bible from other people. If any of the stories in the Bible were found in any other book instead of the Bible would you believe them? No, which proves you’ve let others convince you that the Bible is true. Case closed.
Brad said
Boris, I know you think your statement “closes the case”, but you couldn’t be more wrong. I continue to find it interesting why you are so reluctant to share any of your personal experiences that may have led you to this state of unbelief that you currently hold. Maybe it’s quite painful, I don’t know.
You can say what you wish about the Bible, Boris. I’ve studied it, both with and without others, for years. I know that what you say above simply isn’t true, b/c of the fact that I’ve studied it. Taking other people’s word for stuff is the worst possible evidence, which is why I typically DON’T rely on that for any basis I have.
Like I’ve said before, you have the right to your opinions, but if there is a God, are you ready to meet Him when you die, based on what you believe?
Boris said
Brad,
Like all people including you, I as born an atheist. YOU are the person who had the taumatic experience that made you adpot somone elses beliefs when that someone threatened you with unimaginable violence in an afterlife. Would you like to share THAT painful and frightening experince with the rest of us Brad?
Since you claim have studied the Bible but obviously are completely ignorant of world history, you probably cannot explain how a castaphrophe such as the Passover event described in the Bible is not described or even briefly mentioned in any of the mountain of historical documents we have from ancient Egypt? That fact alone proves the Passover event is pure fiction and debunks all three monotheistic religions once and for all.
As far as meeting God, I don’t believe there is one so why would I be concerned with him following me to my grave to torture me forever for not adopting Brad’s partcular beliefs? If Jesus wants to talk to me after I die at least I will be able to understand what he is saying and respond because of the three years of ancient Greek I took at a Christian college. We know had Jesus really existed, he would not have quoted the mistranslatd Greek sciptures when talking to orthodox Jewish Pharisees but would have quoted the Hebrew. If you actually knew anything about the Bible then you would have already known this. One a person really HAS studied the Bible they realize that Jesus Christ could not have possibly existed.
John said
Wow, thats’ a pretty bold claim Boris.
Tell us if you would please, what sections of the Bible, tell-tell signs, hidden meanings,etc, etc. within the Bible we can study to better understand where you are coming from so that we too can learn and realize that Jesus could not have actually existed?
Boris said
John,
Well for one thing Jesus quotes the Greek mistranslations of the Hebrew scriptures when speaking to orthodox Jewish pharisees, instead of what the Hebrew actually says. That would have gone over well. No wonder they didn’t like him! Jesus is symbolically the “Passover lamb” but the Passover really is just the passing of one year to the next in Hebrew tradition and the story is quite obviously a fiction to give meaning to the celebration and a reason that the new years started on a a particular date. I don’t think too many of my fellow tribesmen would disagree with that or that there were never any twelve tribes of Israel either. There are way more than twelve tribes mentioned in the Bible anyway. Check the Song of Deborah for starters.
Really though, history isn’t written the way the Bible is and the Bible is written like Homer is and is no more historical. The spies returning from the land of the giants is right out of Homer. Homer is no more the history of the Greeks than the Bible is a history of the Jews. It doesn’t matter a bit to me that so many others have believed so very differently for so very long. They’re all wrong and the critics of the Bible have been right all along.
John said
I rather fancy the “Song of Songs”, myself[naughty grin].
Thankyou for your input, Boris.
Brad said
Boris, I’ll leave you alone, then. No point. You don’t want to discuss, and that’s OK.
I can’t say I’ll pray for you all the time, Boris, b/c I won’t remember to, but I do pray now that you find what you’re missing.