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Today’s Issues, From a Biblical Perspective!

Does Jesus Support Homosexuality?

Posted by truthtalklive on March 5, 2008

Barak Obama says yes..What do you say? Sitting in for Stu today is Gary DeMar with American Vision (www.garydemar.com)

If you want to call in today, please use his number 1-800-982-GARY (4279)

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83 Responses to “Does Jesus Support Homosexuality?”

  1. Stinkie said

    Why is Gary so hard on the homosexuals?

  2. Anonymous said

    I’m not sure if that comment shouldn’t be censored.

  3. Educated Dawg said

    Jesus Christ doesn’t support any sin. He is the sinless Creator that was judged for our sins, all our sins. He became sin for us, so that we could become the righteousness of God in Him. Galatians 2:20, 2 Corinthians 5:17

  4. Willie said

    If homosexuality is so bad how come Jesus never mentions it?

  5. Anonymous said

    Support Homosexuality? NO. The homosexual? Yes absolutely, so much so that He chose to come down from heaven, live a perfect life and suffer & die for the homosexual (and every other sinner, including you and me) so that upon simple belief/trust in Him we can be forgiven and enjoy eternal life with our magnificent Creator!!! My Response… Psalm 34!!!

  6. Anonymous said

    He does!! “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.”

    Sexual immorality did not need to be defined back then. Everyone knew what it was. Unlike today. But Willie, why do you even care what He said if you don’t even believe that Jesus existed?

  7. Willie said

    He’s talking about sex outside marriage- “pornea”- but what if the homosexuals are a loving married couple?

  8. Anonymous said

    So… when did homosexuals marry back then? Man you are grasping now Willie. Typical… always looking for a loop hole to justify your sins.

  9. Anonymous said

    And by the way, why would He use the term for adultery AND sexual Immorality if they mean the same thing?

  10. Willie said

    always looking for a loop hole to justify your sins

    Anonymous- I don’t appreciate you accusing me of sexual sins or impugning my motivations.

  11. Anonymous said

    Not to mention that Jesus believed the OT scripture completely. Do I need to show you all of the places where the OT condemns the behavior? As well as the Epistles. I guess you are just bellying up to the pot luck God table so you can pick and choose what you like and what you don’t like.

  12. Anonymous said

    So Willie, how does it feel to get a little of what you’ve been dishing out? So tell me, if you don’t think they are sins, why does it bother you to get accused of them? You might want to think about that Willie!!

  13. Willie said

    OT condemns the behavior? As well as the Epistles

    But not Jesus.

    So Willie, how does it feel to get a little of what you’ve been dishing out?

    When did I call you sexually immoral?

    why does it bother you to get accused of them? It bothers me that there are people in this world who are so dumb that there only answer to an argument is “you just don’t want to turn away from your sin.”

  14. Willie said

    And some people have suggested that Jesus may have been a homosexual himself, which would explain why he never condemned them as Paul does. Think about it- 1)he never married a woman, eve though there is no reason why he shouldn’t 2)he spent most of his time with 12 other men 3)he was arrested with a naked boy at Gethsemene.

  15. Anonymous said

    You’re just talking in circles now Willie. So much hate. So sad.

    So by what barometer is calling someone sexual immoral worse than calling someone an idiot, ignorant, stupid, etc.?

    And by whose authority do you make such a judgment? Since there is no “ultimate authority” other than yourself in your worldview?

  16. Anonymous said

    And you believe them over the Bible Willie? WOO. You’ve gone over the deep end now dude!!

  17. Anonymous said

    By the way. He was too busy living a perfect sinless life and getting crucified on the cross for your sins and mine to get married. This is not in the Bible, just my opinion.

  18. Jeff42 said

    Willie,

    I really must warn you that against such blasphemy. One day you will stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and give account of yourself. Please, consider carefully what you say!

    By the way, Gary is on today. Are you going to call in and debate him?

  19. CarGuy37 said

    It’s been said a hundred times, “love the sinner, hate the sin.”

    I think the Bible is pretty clear that homosexuality is a sin, just as it is towards adultery, murder, gossip, etc. But it’s also been said, “if you squeeze the Bible hard enough, you can get it to say anything.”

    And don’t forget the lesson learned in Matthew 16. Peter is asked who Jesus is, and he says that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus then proceeds to affirm that this information is not attained through human wisdom, but rather from the Holy Ghost.

    So brothers and sisters in Christ, don’t get too upset when someone “doesn’t hear” what you’re saying (or more importantly what God is saying). Pray for that person, effectively witness to them, share the Gospel, the power unto salvation, and trust that God will reveal His truths according to His sovereign Will.

    And one more thing, Jesus never abrogated one law in the OT; He either fulfilled it completely, or reiterated it more fully (think Beatitudes).

  20. Jeff42 said

    And maybe the reason that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality was that it was not an issue in Israel at that time. Under the Mosaic Law the penalty for homosexuality was death (see Lev. 20:13).

  21. Jeff42 said

    Although he did mention Sodom in the context of judgment. If you read the account in Gen. 19, you will see that part of their “great sin” was homosexuality.

  22. Anonymous said

    No… They were just being inhospitable. So they tried to have sex with God’s messengers instead…

  23. Jeff42 said

    I detect a little tongue-in-cheek there.

  24. Anonymous said

    Yes. Along with frustration about how so many twist God’s Word around to meet their own agenda’s.

  25. Anonymous said

    “Not to mention that Jesus believed the OT scripture completely. Do I need to show you all of the places where the OT condemns the behavior? As well as the Epistles.”

    In all honesty, Jesus probably wouldn’t have supported homosexuals. He was just a normal man that lived during a time when superstition and fear were even more widespread than they are today. Jesus and his contemporaries were living under the law of Moses because that’s the only way of life they would’ve known.

  26. Anonymous said

    Gary said: “Reason tells us homosexuality cannot be supported.” Implying that since anatomical ‘equipment’ didn;t fit as it does in male and female members of a species, homosexuality must be a perversion.

    I used to think this point was just so knock-down obvious. Until I realized that homosexual behavior is observed time and again in dozens of species in nature. Obviously it does have some benefit even though it isnt procreative. Knowing that this behavior is present, reason actually says that there must be some sort of evolutionary benefit to it — it is at least not detrimental to species.

    One of the callers indicated that someone needed to ‘correct’ Barack on his theology. Perhaps he just has a different interpretation of scripture than you do? Not all people who follow christianity believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Besides, there is no religious test for office (although atheists like myself are in short supply in politics!); so he shouldnt have to meet someone’s religious views to be president. Ultimitely I hope you all vote based on your conscience. Your vote, your choice. But don’t insinuate Barack is any less of a man or a christian for supporting homosexuals.

  27. Anonymous said

    Anonymous 25, “He was just a normal man” I don’t think so!

  28. Anonymous said

    The above post was mine. — CHRIS C.

  29. Ben Maulis said

    Does Jesus love all sinners? If that is so, does it include the ones to whom he will be revealed with his holy angels in flaming fire taking vengeance, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power?

    What about those whom God’s word tells us will face the following:

    • “Shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2)
    • “Everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:46)
    • “Weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 24:51)
    • “Fire unquenchable” (Luke 3:17)
    • “Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish” (Romans 2:8,9)
    • “Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord” (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
    • “Eternal fire…the blackness of darkness for ever” (Jude 7,13)

    Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner: “He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone…the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night.”

    “The fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Rev. 21:8

    Where’s the love for the sinner in that? If God loves the sinner, but hates the sin, why does he promise to toss the chicken out with the bones?

  30. Anonymous said

    Someone beat me to it. Post 26 was mine :). –CHRIS C.

  31. Willie said

    By the way, Gary is on today. Are you going to call in and debate him?

    Jeff42- I know you don’t read too well, so I’ll say try to say this really clearly: me calling in and firing off a question to him is not a debate. To answer you more fully though- I have been corresponding
    with Mr. Demar and we ARE going to have a real debate. Details TBA. He refuses to go on any atheist radio shows where he doesn’t control the microphone (which is typical) but even so I have agreed to go on HIS show to help him see the error of his ways. I guess atheists just have more courage than your people do.

  32. Jeff42 said

    “I know you don’t read too well, so I’ll say try to say this really clearly”

    Nice touch Willie – it gives you tons of credibility.

    Let us know when you are going to be on with Gary. It should be interesting.

  33. ADB said

    Anonymous #26, your point about homosexual conduct in nature is correct, but is also immaterial to whether or not it is condoned scripturally. The question of whether some people are genetically predisposed to homosexuality is also immaterial to what scripture says about homosexuality. Though some do try to argue exegetically (not from the sermon on the mount incidentally) that the Bible does not condemn this conduct, the clear weight of scripture is against them.

  34. Willie said

    You have to wonder about why these folks are so obsessed with homosexuals.

  35. Angie said

    Jesus wrote the whole bible, not just what was in red. He is God in human form so he wrote the whole bible. Homosexuality is an abomination but no more than lying,stealing etc. Just because Jesus didn’t say it doesn’t make it not true.

  36. jAsOn said

    Ben on post 29,

    Perhaps you were making the same point but, it is obvious that God does not love everyone with the same type of love. Just like I do not love my children with the same type of love with which I love my wife; I do not love my neighbor with the same type of love with which I love my children. Likewise, we cannot hold God to love everyone in exactly the same way and to exactly the same degree. Ultimately, God loves Himself/His own holiness above all things, and He must b/c if He loved something else above Himself then He would be an idolater. The point is that God displays His glory in one way through the distribution of His mercy displayed in salvation, and in another way through the distribution of His justice displayed in punishment of unbelievers in Hell.

  37. jAsOn said

    As for the question at hand, “Does Jesus Support Homosexuality?”, the answer is obviously, no.

    On multiple occasions Jesus corroborated the OT scriptures (which in no uncertain terms condemn homosexual acts as sin). I would also be quick to point out for Willie or any others that along with sexual acts of an homosexual character, even sexual acts of an heterosexual nature (outside of marriage), lies, stealing, extortion, idolatry, hatred and murder are capitol offenses against the holy character of God, thus the scandalous necessity of the incarnation of God and His physical death on a Roman cross to save all of those who believe.

    Willie, Jesus also never specifically mentioned pedophiles or wife beaters but I doubt you would, by the same logic you employed in post #4, neglect to condemn those activities. You will also note that Paul actually invents a word that specifically refers to the defiled act of men having sex with men, and he goes on to condemn it as sin no matter what the context.

    There is no valid historical evidence that would support that Jesus ever engaged in homosexual activity, nor that He was arrested with a naked bot from Gethsemane, and even if He was then we must be reminded that there were many who lived in poverty who were forced to go around naked b/c of their destitution.

  38. Tripp said

    Willie – your blasphemous, insinuating comments about the God we Christians worship are close to crossing the line. I am surprised the Moderator hasn’t deleted that comment or banned you completely. Your hate serves no purpose here and your debates are based on weak assumptions with no plausible evidence to back yourself up. It is a shame that you cannot debate diplomatically because you seem to be somewhat intelligent. You must be a very sad person to be filled with so much hate. I feel sorry for you.

  39. Willie said

    I wouldn’t have brought it up had TTL not raised the issue of Jesus and homosexuality. Of course I don’t think he was gay. He would have to exist first for that to be true. But it’s true that some gay rights people make the claim using the evidence I stated above and more. The real question is why is TTL so obsessed with gays?

  40. Anonymous said

    Willie,

    I think the reason that the gay issue is front and center is because of the very public agenda (on the part of gay activists) to normalize homosexuality. If there was a public agenda to noramalize another sin, you would see a similar focus on that sin.

  41. Willie said

    I still think it’s odd that these hosts are so obsessed with homosexuals. When do they do shows denouncing greed? That’s a sin too. Or anger. Or gluttony. Or envy. Those sins are much more common than homosexuality.

  42. jAsOn said

    Willie,

    I think Anon is right. I think that when any “high profile” sin that goes against Christian morals, and is normalized because of the contemporary ethic then it will likely be addressed more frequently.

  43. Willie said

    Homosexuality only involves homosexuals (about 5% of the population).
    Greed is ‘practiced’ at some time or another by 100% of the population.
    How many shows has TTL done on greed? I bet it grieves the Holy Spirit that greed is at the bottom of your list. Homosexuals should not be on top.

  44. jAsOn said

    Willie,

    My point is that most Christians are already convinced that greed is a sin. In America, greed is both unethical and immoral.

  45. Chris C. said

    Dear Chistians:

    I understand the thought process behind labelling people of alternate lifestyles, ‘sinful’. I disagree, but I do understand why you believe what you do.

    What I don’t get, is why you are all so concerned that no one be allowed to live a ‘sinful’ lifestyle. Unless you happen to be one of those in the ilk of Falwell or Robertson who believe god punishes America for allowing sinul practices, I don’t see how homosexuality threatens you as a christian.

    Obviously there are loving people who are attracted to each other and want to live in America with the same rights and benefits as you. Why stop them? How does two women or men getting married affect your monogomous relationship at all? The value of your marriage or relationship is in no way dependant on othr peoples relationships.

    If you’re concerned that America is becoming ‘morally loose’ I want you to take a moment to think about this position. You believe, based on religious teaching, that homosexuality is a sin and homosexual marriage should not be allowed. Since you are in a majority (as far as opinion goes)in this nation, you have some ability to legislate your religious beliefs into national law. Imagine, however, if some other religious group came into power who thought that all women should be forced to cover their entire body (crazy, I know!) in clothing. And what if that group passed laws to enforce this rule. Would be maddening, no? Why? Because there is no basis to their beliefs. That’s how it feels to be a secularist/freethinker/moderate christian/ etc. in America. We just want to know why you all feel the need to prevent other people from enjoying the same rights and freedoms as you do.

    Chris C.

  46. jAsOn said

    Chris,

    Everyone votes and approves policies based on beliefs or convictions regarding what they think is right and wrong; ethical and unethical. Unless one is an anarchist, they make judgements on what someone else should or shouldn’t do.

  47. Chris C. said

    Making judgments is fine. Enacting laws is another thing. If I vote based on a moral conviction, it is usually because I am affected by said moral policy. Such as voting for people who are strong on crime, terror, propose good educational policies, good health care, etc. All of those thigs can very directly affect the individual who is voting.

    If you’re not gay, homosexual marriage doesn’t affect you.

  48. jAsOn said

    if your not a student, educational policies don’t affect you.

  49. Chris C. said

    …Or a parent of a student. Anyway, keep picking out small things to disagree with…that is fine. Does anyone want to deal with the larger issue:

    Why Christians are so afraid of gays getting married?

  50. jAsOn said

    It just sounded as though you were suggesting that if a proposed policy doesn’t affect you directly, then you shouldn’t approve or oppose it.

  51. Fred said

    It’s political. They want political power, that’s all. They are as free as they ever were to proscribe homosexuality in their churches and in their religion.

  52. jAsOn said

    Fred,

    Try not to impose on all Christians your opinion of us based entirely on those who have represented us by way of popular media.

  53. Willie said

    They want political power, that’s all

    I think that’s close, fred. The gay bashing is just part of the general scare-mongering tactics they use as fund-raising tools. Nobody wants to listen to a show warning about the sins of greed or envy (or ignorance, for that matter) but it’s fun and profitable to demonize homosexuals.

  54. jAsOn said

    Willie and Fred,

    You must also keep in mind that not all political personalities who say they are Christians actually are.

    Please define “bashing”.

  55. Brad said

    Does anyone want to deal with the larger issue:

    Why Christians are so afraid of gays getting married?

    I’ll deal with it Chris. I’m not “afraid” of it at all. And while I don’t think it would affect me personally (at least directly, and at least initially), it is hard to tell what the longer-term or indirect effects of it might be.

    While I can’t speak for all Christians, the issue I personally have with it is that it is pushed as “normal” or “okay”, and certainly “not sinful”. I happen to disagree, based on the Word of God. Do I expect all people to believe that? No. But doesn’t mean I think that any less, b/c others might not agree. And I choose to vote how I believe, just like anyone else chooses (or has the right to choose) to vote based on how they believe.

    So I’ll ask you a question in return: if your theory is that if it doesn’t affect you, why does it matter to me, then if it doesn’t affect you, why does it matter to you what I think about it?

  56. Brad said

    You must also keep in mind that not all political personalities who say they are Christians actually are.

    Exactly – just as Fred, who says he is, clearly isn’t, based on the beliefs he himself has said he holds to.

  57. Willie said

    Please define “bashing”.

    Look it up in the DicTioNarY.

  58. jAsOn said

    Willie,

    you dont have to cop an attitude.

  59. jAsOn said

    I know how the dictionary defines bash but I want to know how you define it in this context.

    I know whow the dictionary defines bash, and telling someone that what they are doing is wrong does not qualify. How is the way you speak about Christians who oppose gay marriage any different in regards to fear mongering? If telling someone they are wrong is bashing, then you are engaged in Christian bashing. I think you should be a bit more intentional in the words you choose.

  60. Fred said

    Brad is never wrong, is he?

  61. Anonymous said

    Fred
    Is your last name Nietzsche?

  62. Brad said

    All the time, Fred.

    But not this time…

  63. Tripp said

    Willie – If you dig back through this website you will find many other topics being covered on the show. You will find less than a handful of posts pertaining to homosexuality. If you asked me, you’re the one who is obsessed with the topic.

    Here are a few, but I could find more if pressed.

    https://truthtalklive.wordpress.com/2007/10/11/some-good-news-out-of-the-nfl/

    https://truthtalklive.wordpress.com/2007/03/30/todays-topic-hows-your-health/

  64. Fred said

    That’s it, Brad is off the Christmas card list. Sorry.

  65. Moderator (not Stu) said

    Folks, I’m sorry but we are not going to allow this forum to be a discussion on the different types of sex.

  66. jAsOn said

    Thank you Moderator

  67. John said

    Bummer that. It would have been very interesting.
    Oh well.

  68. Brad said

    Fred,

    Do you actually believe in Christmas? I mean, your views (which you “profess” to be Christian) are all over the board with respect to Jesus, the Bible, etc…, so it’s always hard to tell.

    I already get quite a few Christmas cards, though, so I should be good.

  69. Darin said

    Which leads us to the question, “Does Jesus support Christmas?” LOL

  70. Fred said

    Brad, yes, Christmas is my favorite holiday. The Winter solstice, Saturnalia and that legendary manger in Bethlehem, etc.

    What do you know of my “views” being “all over the place”? You just want to pick a fight, don’t you?

    Well, I am not going to let you. So there!

    Hugs and kisses!

    Fred

  71. F. L. A. said

    INDEED, DARIN.
    WE BELIEVE IN CHRISTMAS, BRAD.
    WE CELEBRATE IT AFTER WE CELEBRATE IT’S FORERUNNER, YULE.
    DID YOU ALL GET A CHANCE TO READ THE DELETED POSTS?
    I THOUGHT IT WAS GETTING VEEEERRRY EDUCATIONAL.

  72. Fred said

    I want to be clear that F.L.A. does not include me his post #71.

    best,
    Fred

  73. F. L. A. said

    I WAS REFERRING TO ME, JOHN, AND THE REST OF OUR LITTLE FAMILY DOWN HERE IN FLORIDA.

  74. Jack said

    This debate centers around how liberals (B.Obama) can define the meaning of “is”( Clinton reference) . While we Christians are “OBLIGATED” to cut thru the clutter.
    We’re suppose to “tolerate” guy people!
    That doesn’t mean we are to embrace homosexuality. (besides if evolution had meant for guys to copulate wouldn’t there be ….well a functionality? Seems like another hole in you’re “theory” hehe. According to you it’s a genetic mistake that should be “eradicated’.
    We Christians don’t advocate that, because theres still a chance for redemption.

  75. Chris C. said

    Actually, homosexuality does not pose a problem for evolutionary theory.

    Genes for homosexuality could be beneficial on the whole. In bonobo chimpanzees, homosexual interactions are a form of social cement. It is possible that homosexuality evolved to serve social functions in humans, too. Although homosexuality probably has a genetic component, much of its cause, perhaps most of it, appears to be nongenetic. To the extent it is not genetic, selection would not affect it.

  76. Larry said

    Your question is blashphemous.

  77. Edwin said

    It’s been said a hundred times, “love the sinner, hate the sin.”

    ???????

    This ridiculous statement is found NOWHERE in the Holy Bible. The sinner IS his sin. If you try to love him and hate his sin, it is the same thing as casting pearls before swine. We are not to “love the sinner, hate the sin” we are to tell the sinner to “Repent! and believe the Gospel!”

  78. jAsOn said

    Sorry Edwin but I think you are making a category error…telling the sinner to repent of his sin and believe(a group in which Christians are included) IS to LOVE him.

  79. Mike said

    Willie: You wonder why Jesus never mentions homosexuality? To make an argument like that is to make an argument for silence. Jesus didn’t talk about a lot of subjects….you know in your heart, it’s wrong………..

  80. F. L. A. said

    I thought that a Christian was not supposed to trust what was within their heart, Mr.Sears?

  81. Mike S. said

    That wasn’t me F.L.A. But he’s talking about conscience/conviction that we know deep down what is right and what is wrong. But the truth of Romans 1:18-19 and Ephesians 4:18 takes over.

  82. F. L. A. said

    Ahhh.

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