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Can God save Osama Bin Ladin?

Posted by truthtalklive on February 29, 2008

Dr. Alex McFarland is sitting in the truth booth (www.alexmcfarland.com)

Today’s guests are Dr. Thomas Bruce and Omar Allaymann, they are the founders called “Adopt a Terrorist for Prayer” calling people everywhere to fight the War on Terror on their knees! Info for them is at www.myatfp.com In the 2nd half of the show Alex talks with Dr. David Johnson leader of The National Conference on Spiritual Discernment. For complete info visit  Southern Evangelical Seminary visit (www.ses.edu)

To here/download a podcast of today’s show or prior ones go to www.wtru.com (located at the bottom of the page)

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49 Responses to “Can God save Osama Bin Ladin?”

  1. John said

    I still want him and all of his little helpers dead.

    DEAD.

    DEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEADDEAD.
    I will pray….that the bullets of his opposition shall fly sure and true, among other things.

  2. Elias said

    Maybe yes, Maybe No but he still needs to pay for the crimes he’s committed and lives he’s taken whether he’s saved or not.

  3. Piper said

    Just remember John that we before we are saved, we are sinners in the eyes of God and all deserve to be cast into the lake of fire. We have all lied, we have all stolen, we have all blasphemed the name of the most high God, and we all desreve Gods wrath. What Bin Laden did was more extreem then most of us but the fact remains that you and I are just as quilty before God. Romans 3:23 says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Luke13:3 reads that unless you repent you will likewise parish. We are all sinners before God and Jesus Christ(God Himself) died and shed his blood for us as well as Bin Ladin. Lets be carefull who we wish to be dead because in God’s eyes we should also be destoryed. And as our eternal judge I think that we should look to him instead of our oun judgements. Just one more question for you if you are the John that is a pagon, who are you going to pray to.

  4. Maz Herman said

    I agree with Piper. We are ALL guilty before a Holy God and would all go to Hell without Jesus as our Savior. Jesus forgives ALL sin except Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. The question is, has Bin Laden done this? If not, he can be forgiven and saved if he repents, whether we feel he deserves it or not. Remember none of us DESERVE it, it’s a gift from God.

  5. Hope Epperson said

    well i think that GOd can save anybody because He is sooooooo powerful. i mean this guy has done sooo many things that are not good but in the Bible it says that a sin is a sin it does not matter if you stole a simple piece of gum from a grocery store or if you have killed hundreds of people. GOd treats everyone the same. so i must agree with piper.

  6. John said

    You people sound as if you don’t remember what happened on September 11th. a few short years ago. Have any of you actually BEEN in a fight with a killer of any kind? Methinks that your God is not so forgiving, and does NOT treat everyone the same. I can respect your decision, folks, but I still disagree that all are worthy of forgiveness. You would actually equate stealing a piece of gum to mass murder? And this is ….divine justice for you? That is one of the reasons that I serve the Old Religion.In my Heaven we get to enjoy hunting people like him down.Again and again.We do not turn the other cheek.We fight fire with a volcano.I would decapitate him with one swipe of my Kukrie, and consider THAT to be merciful as death would be instant compared to what some would gladly do to his body before he finally succumbed to death. People can be forgiven TO A POINT. But people like him have crossed the line in a major way. I have my own standards of justice, and I am too vengeful and brutal to forgive such unforgivable acts as those committed by Osama Bin Ladin, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler, Jim Jones, and others of THEIR ilk. When his flunkies attacked our people, in our own land, he PISSED ME OFF, and I have never been known for my sense of forgiveness or mercy of those who get on my bad side….

  7. Maz Herman said

    John. Until you realise what hatred and cruel treatment Jesus suffered, and the agony He went through on the cross on Calvary, until you understand why He went and how much He loved YOU to go through all that, until you know the pain and heartache, the torture and death of this Man, very real, very human, yet God in the flesh……….THINK ABOUT IT………..IF He went through ALL THAT FOR YOU and STILL FORGAVE HIS MURDERERS, AND FORGIVES YOU TOO EVEN THOUGH YOU REJECT HIM WITH YOUR ANGER, SURELY WE CAN DO NOTHING ELSE BUT FORGIVE THOSE THAT HURT US.

  8. ADB said

    John, I continue to respect your honesty and goodwill in your posts, qualities that are often missing. This topic is a good one because it does illustrate where our beliefs differ. Osama will probably meet some violent end on earth. From the knife of a traitor to his cause, from the rifle of one of our special forces guys, or from a smart bomb. Honestly, I can’t say that I would be disappointed if that happened. From a Christian perspective, I also know that the greater good would be to see him repent of his misdeeds even though this does appear to be a very, very unlikely. If he never repents of his grotesque evil he will meet God’s justice one day. I also believe that for those who come to faith (in Christ) and repentance, God does not treat them with justice but instead with mercy and grace. In my understanding this is the message of the Gospel of Christ.

    Best Wishes.

  9. Maz Herman said

    ADB. I couldn’t have put it better myself.

  10. Educated Dawg said

    John,

    How can you impose your personal views on others? How can you determine that Bin Ladin is beyond forgiveness?

    Your morality is relative at best. You have no standard except that which you conjure up on your mind based on your feelings. Our nation is governed by law – law that states, or at least used to, that this is wrong and this is right. It comes from Judeo-Christian writings.

    Bin Ladin adheres to a different set of laws. His holy book and writings state that he has the right to kill the infidel at any cost. What makes your religious views in the “old religion” more relevant and correct than his Islam?

    Christians believe in absolute authority, that God is Supreme and His morality and law is above all. We beleive that all have fallen short of His standard, that all humanity stands on level ground before Him. We are all deserving of His vengence, being guilty compared to His law.

    Yet, He, God the Creator, took it upon Himself to redeem us from the prison of our sin/transgression against Him. No one is punished by God based on what sin we commit. We are punished/condemned based on what we beleive concerning Jesus Christ – John chapter 3.

    Paul the apostle was just as “evil” and ruthless as Bin Ladin. And just as Bin Ladin does his ilk in the name of his god. So, too, did Saul of Tarsus(Paul) do his ilk in the name of his religion and even thought he was doing it in the name of Jehovah God. Yet, God in His mercy, changed Saul’s life. Saul was a changed man and that was signified by a changed name, Paul.

    David Berkowitz, son of Sam, is another of the evil ones that did unspeakable deeds to human life. Yet, again, God the Creator changed his life and he now ministers to thousands from his prison cell on death row.

    There are numerous Jihadists that have been changed by the power of Christ. People you would gladly decapitate. Yet, Jesus Christ gladly gave His life for them and now they are living a new life.

    That is the gospel of Jesus Christ that sets Him apart from all other so-called gods. Those who trust in Him, He changes them forever. Their old life is now changed into a new life in Christ.

    God can save Bin Ladin. God can save John. None of us are worthy of forgiveness, but thanks to Jesus Christ that it is there through His death, burial and resurrection.

  11. John said

    Thank you for your insite ADB.

    Educated Dawg and others, everything that you stated matters not to me, as a pagan.I am apathetic in regards to the forgiving nature of Jesus Christ. Believe what brings you strength and joy.It would be interesting to see if you can keep this view if that big invasion that character Tripp was going on about on the “Are these Christians going too far?” site, comes to pass anytime soon.
    Educated Dawg, “impose my veiws on others”? You don’t HAVE to read my posts, you know. You know nothing of my theological standards of morality save for what I let you know., which is very little. David Berkowitze is a con-man hiding behind religion. If someone asks him about his past crimes, he passes the blame, or gets a case of selective amnesia.He has NEVER taken responsibility for his actions.
    And befor I chopped off Osama’s head, I would coat the blade with pig blood. T.T.F.N.

  12. Educated Dawg said

    John,

    It is sad that in times of trials and testing, you turn to your feelings. What good is your religion then?

    And if you are a true Wiccan, then I can do a search on the web to get a general understanding of Wiccan standards of morality. And whether Berkowitz is a con-man or not, I do not know. All I do know is that he is on death row with no reason to convert to Christ for he will never get out.

    You don’t need to wonder what Christians will do if America is invaded by Bin Ladin followers. Go to Irac/Iran/Saudi Arabia/Kuwait, etc. and see the Christians under intense persecution, yet still “blessing” their enemies and praying for those who do evil to them. That is the Biblical way. God’s forgiving nature is only on account of the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made in our place, including your place. What a shame to be apathetic to your Creator 😦

  13. John said

    Sometimes we have to think for ourselves in times of trials and testing, Educated Dawg. My deities would not respect me as a man if I were an overly subservient puppet, and I am prepared for any ensuing consequences of my actions. A “true Wiccan”? As if you could make such a judgment[grin, with one raised eyebrow]? A “general understanding” doesn’t cut it, Educated Dawg.
    And it still won’t help you fully understand my people, as I belong to a denomination of Wicca that is quickly going extinct. Learn what you can, and then ask me questions about it so I can tell you how it doesn’t apply to me[smile].I’ll even point you in the right direction. There are MANY MANY denominations of Wicca, but the one that comes the closest to being like mine is listed as “Appalachian Folk Magick”. Reading Books would serve you better, and going back to the site “Interview with a Wiccan” in “Apologetics” and then finding and reading all of Summer’s, the F. L. A.’s, and my posts within the different sites from that point on would be even better. But I don’t really think that you actually care about any of this anyway.After all, why would it even matter to you?
    And considering that Paganism predates Christianity and Judaism,[not to mention the fact that my form of paganism hails from a completely different part of the world] my creator deities are not the same as your Middle Eastern God, so there is no shame in being apathetic to your Creator, or his theological regulations and benefits, Educated Dawg.
    Not that there is no respect for other’s deities, mind you, for there is always a…divine common courtesy… that must be shown, but try to understand that our ways are not your ways and could never be.We exist in a very different world/universe than you civilized,young-earth Christians do.
    Goodnight.

  14. Hope Epperson said

    well i must say one thing you both need to call in on stu’s show and talk about this on the air and i will say that i respect maz herman and adb and educated dawg. john listen to them!!!!!

  15. Maz Herman said

    John, It really saddens me to hear you talking the way you do. IF YOU COULD ONLY KNOW HOW MUCH JESUS CHRIST LOVES Y O U, YOU JOHN, I WISH I COULD CONVEY THE LOVE THAT IS IN HIS HEART FOR Y O U. EVEN THOUGH YOU COULDN’T CARE LESS, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE APATHETIC TO HIS LOVE, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE LIVING IN SIN AND AGAINST ALL HE STANDS FOR…..YET…..HE STILL LOVES YOU JOHN. He STILL LOVES YOU!
    I find that AMAZING.

  16. Educated Dawg said

    Just as Christians don’t give up on Bin Ladin, we will not give up on John either.

    It’s not about who’s religion is oldest. It’s about the One True God and your relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. that sets Him apart from all socalled deities/gods.
    No others compare to Him. In that respect, it doesn’t matter what denomination of Wicca John is in.

    We were all in his situation of unbelief until Christ opened our eyes and gave us the understanding.

  17. F. L. A. said

    I DOUBT THAT!
    GET OVER YOURSELVES, PEOPLE.
    EDUCATED DAWG, YOU MISSED A VITAL POINT IF YOU THINK THAT A RELIGION’S AGE MATTERS NOT IN REGARDS TO THIS TOPIC, AND THEN GO ON TO TALK ABOUT ” THE ONE TRUE GOD”, AS IF THEOLOGY STARTED WITH YOURS.WHY DON’T YOU JUST PUT HIM ON YOUR PRAYER LIST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE WHO DOESN’T KNOW WHEN TO LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE?

  18. Maz Herman said

    F.L.A. Your doubt (capitals or not) will lead you where you wouldn’t want to go if you only knew.
    Our ”religion” began ”In the Beginning God……”
    Our God was there at the beginning and even before. Where was yours?

  19. Educated Dawg said

    F.L.A.,

    Don’t worry, he is on my prayer list. so too are you. As has already been mentioned, the Christian God existed in eternity and put forth everything by the power of His might. He sustains everything by His will.

    We walk by faith n the self-existent God, not by our sight. Thereby, even though we in our very nature would agree with John to send Bin Ladin straight to hell with a pig-blooded sword. Yet, the love of Christ constrains us. No one is beyond the reach of Jesus Christ.

    In Bin Ladin’s religion, you are born a Muslim or converted by force. Christians come to Christ through believing what the Bible says about Him and through the awakening of our hearts and understanding by His Spirit.

    There is a big difference between Jesus Christ of the Bible and all other supposed deities/gods. No pagan deities can compare to Him.

  20. F. L. A. said

    AND WHY WOULD THEY EVEN WANT TO, EH?
    IF YOU HAD ANY UNDERSTANDING ABOUT PAGANISM, THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT ALL OF THIS THEOLOGICAL “ONE UPMANSHIP” WAS UNNECESSARY.
    WHY? BECAUSE YOUR THEOLOGY HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN IT THAT WE NEED OR WANT.
    NOTHING.
    I KNOW THAT YOU CAN’T OR WON’T ACCEPT THIS, BUT THAT’S YOUR SILLY PROBLEM, NOT OURS. WHAT YOUR TRYING TO DO TO/FOR US IS AKIN TO….FOR EXAMPLE, TRYING TO SELL A ROW BOAT[CHRISTIANITY,SALVATION, YOUR HEAVEN,ETC.] TO A CROCODILE[JOHN,PAGANS]. IMAGINE THE SCENE, IF YOU CAN, ON A SECLUDED RIVER BANK OF THE AMOZON: “BUT YOU NEEEEEED THIS BOAT, MR.CROCODILE!!! HOW WILL YOU EVER GET ACROSS THE RIVERS?!? HOW WILL YOU GET OUT THERE AND CATCH YOUR FISH?!?
    WHY, YOU’RE DROWNING AND YOU’RE TOOOO BLIND TO EVEN SEEEEEE ITTTTT!!! BUY OUR BOAT BEFORE IT’S TO LATE!!!”
    YOU CAN KEEP IT, BECAUSE WE DON’T NEED IT.

    MRS.[?]HERMAN, ….YOU HAVE NO IDEA.IT’S YOUR HELL, AND YOU CAN KEEP THAT TOO. I DON’T THINK THAT YOU REALLY WANT AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT OUR/MY DEITIES. IF YOU ARE A YOUNG-EARTHER, THEN YOU ALREADY HAVE A WILLINGLY FLAWED UNDERSTANDING OF HISTORY, SO IT WOULD BE A COMPLETE WASTE OF ALL OF OUR TIME AND ENERGY TO TRY AND EXPLAIN HOW MANY RELIGIONS AND DEITIES EXISTED BEFORE THE BIRTH OF CHRISTIANITY.
    KNOWING WOULD NOT MAKE YOU ANY HAPPIER A WOMAN, AND YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE THE INFORMATION ANYWAY.

  21. Educated Dawg said

    F.L.A.,

    There you go again with the idea that Christianity is a young religion, therefore irrelevant to your so-called theology.

    It is irrelevant to us whether there were millions of religions before Christ came to this earth as a man. Jesus Christ, being the self-existent God, has always existed. Your arguments are nothing but your personal thoughts.

    It’s not about a “one up” mentality. It is about Who is the real God. What did your deities create? What do your deities do for you? Where is the evidence that your deities are even real? We have the FACT that our God, Jesus Christ died and rose again after being dead for 3 days. That is FACT from both secular and Biblical history. Not even the National Geographic channel can disprove it. And that is where Christianity stands or falls – on the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Wanna get rid of all us young-earth creationist Christians? Disprove the resurrection. Use that good ole evolutionary science to establish the DNA of Christ. It should be easy, why with all this modern evolutionary evidence we have available. It should be a piece of cake to disprove His resurrection……….

    No other deity has done this. That is what distinguishes Jesus Christ from all false gods. Islam tried to disprove it. The Mormons, the Jehovah’s witnesses, the atheists, the Buddhists, etc., etc., etc. Yet, have y’all done it? Nope!

    The natural man receives not the things of God. You say Jesus Christ can do nothing for you and has nothing that you need? That is your choice, a wrong choice, but still your choice. But what can your theology offer the Christian? What can the pagan gods declare unto me that would make me forsake Jesus Christ?

  22. John said

    That’s Pagan Gods, you arrogant man.
    Apparently you have none of that divine common courtesy that we pagans have such an abundance of.
    We can’t prove anything concrete about the DNA of Jesus because like Socrates and King Minos, we have no real evidence that they actually existed, save for what OTHERS have written about them. You don’t even know what he looked like.All of your “facts” are as provable as anything out our own theology.And Jesus was not the only theological figure, deity or not, to arise from death. You would know that if you studied world theology and mythology.I could give you some names if you wished.And as for your claims on “deity seniority”,you don’t have a leg to stand on Educated Dawg.Pagans could make the same claims about their religions, save that we actually have REAL HISTORY on our side.
    I know that this hurts the pride, but you’ll just have to be big enough to get over it.There is no shame in having a younger theology Educated Dawg, and this doesn’t make your deity any less real. After all, MY theology is younger than some too.
    Why,in Wicca, we have some denominations that are only a few years old.But it matters not, really.
    Now I know what you’re going to say..”But that would mean that the Bible was wrong! And that’s impossible!”… but is it? Consider why there are so many Versions of the Bible. I have 17.
    Consider why there are so many conflicting denominations of Christianity.I could go on, but hopefully you understand the point that I’m trying to make here and can see where this is going.
    What can my theology offer the Christian?
    Well, for starters, as we have no concept of Original Sin and the resulting Fall of Man, brought on by divine damnation, we could give you a more positive feeling of spiritual self worth and pride.For starters.
    But what makes you think that the Pagan Deities are interested in making Christians forsake their faith? They have nothing to prove to anyone. I don’t think that they care about hording nations of souls, unlike other theologies that we both know of[smile,wink].We Wiccans are not interested in spiritual world domination, unlike you.We have no agenda, or even an Apocalypse to raise spiritual armies for.And we NEVER proselytize.It is forbidden.And you should know that, too.
    You can believe your biased opinions or not, I don’t really care.T.T.F.N.
    It’s time to feed.

  23. Fred said

    “We have the FACT that our God, Jesus Christ died and rose again after being dead for 3 days. That is FACT from both secular and Biblical history.” – E. Dawg

    Whenever they use caps, you can be sure they’re about to spread the fertilizer.

    Let me try one: (ahem)Bin Laden has MORE in COMMON with Mr. Dawg than perhaps Mr. Dawg REALIZES.

  24. Educated Dawg said

    Fred,
    Yep, real mature 😉
    I guess F.L.A. is spreading it big time then huh.

  25. Educated Dawg said

    John,
    I will believe my “biased” God. Yet, it’s not my opinion. I didn’t write the Bible.

    Yes, I already know about the mythological gods/deities and their supposed resurrections, even their supposed virgin births. Like I said, we don’t just have Biblical history. We have secular history that affirms Jesus of Nazareth was real and did indeed die on a cross. His resurrection was seen by many in that day.

    As I said earlier, it’s not about who’s religion is oldest. It’s about which Deity is true.

  26. Fred said

    “We have secular history that affirms Jesus of Nazareth was real and did indeed die on a cross. His resurrection was seen by many in that day.” – E. Dawg

    References?

    Or did you forget the caps this time?

  27. John said

    Don’t spoil things for the F. L. A., Fred[smile]. As I recall Educated Dawg, the resurrection was seen by one or two men who then claimed that there were about 500 witnesses.
    This is not the same as 500 eye witness testimonies. Being pantheistic this event still doesn’t matter very much to me.
    If you already know of all of those other resurrections and virgin births, then the reason that they don’t matter to you is………… simply because they are non-Christian? Is this all it takes to denounce something as false? If so, then that’s really too bad,for you, Educated Dawg.
    Have you studied up some of that”general understanding of Wiccan morality” yet[grin]?
    I doubt it.

  28. Maz Herman said

    HI guys,
    I notice F.L.A is using the CAPS this time. All I hear from F.L.A and John is a really bad attitude. All we as Christians want to do is help you see the Truth, but you don’t want to. I don’t know about anyone else but I am not here to try and win a debate. I will not continue in this debate while you seem SO opposed to us and what we believe. And I can hear you say ”your opposed to me and mine”. I am opposed to those who oppose my God. BUT that doesn’t mean I have given up on you completely, I will continue to pray that you WILL see the Truth, that GOD will reveal this to you……….and yes, there is a hell. I don’t like the idea of the place either but I cannot deny what the scriptures say about it.

  29. F. L. A. said

    AWWWWW. THAT’S SO ….”BIG” OF YOU, TO DO THAT FOR US MRS.HERMAN.
    THANK THE GODS THAT THERE ARE SUCH PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD WHO KNOW HOW OTHERS SHOULD BE THINKING AND WORSHIPING.

    THAT WAS SARCASM, OF COURSE.
    I ALWAYS USE CAPS, UNLESS I AM QUOTING SOMEONE.
    AND DON’T BE SUCH A WHINER. WE NEVER MADE CLAIMS ABOUT BEING “GOOD” PEOPLE MRS.HERMAN.THAT’S WHAT OTHERS SAY. YOU THINK THAT WE ONLY OFFER BAD ATTITUDE, EH? ON THE CONTRARY I THINK THAT, OASAMA BEN LADEN ASIDE, JOHN HAS BEEN QUITE CIVIL WITH THOSE WHO RESPOND TO HIM WITH SARCASM,THEOLOGICAL DISRESPECT, AND DIVINE DAMNATIONS. BUT I GUESS THIS IS ONLY WRONG WHEN DIRECTED TORWARDS THOSE WHO BELONG TO THE “RIGHT”DENOMINATION OF CHRISTIANITY, EH?
    WE NEVER DENIED THE EXISTENCE OF YOUR HELL, OR YOUR GOD, YOU KNOW, ONLY THAT YOUR WAY WAS NOT THE WAY FOR US.I BET THAT YOU KNOW NEXT TO NOTHING ABOUT WICCA BUT SAVE THE MOST GENERAL INFORMATION, IF THAT MUCH.YOU CHRISTIANS CAN’T EVEN GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHERS VARIOUS DENOMINATIONS, AND THEN HAVE THE GALL TO TELL US HOW WEEEEE SHOULD BE WORSHIPING? YOU’LL NEVER UNDERSTAND JUST HOW RUDE YOU COME OFF TO THE NON-CHRISTIAN.
    WE HAVE OUR OWN DEITIES, HEAVENS, AND HELLS. WE DON’T NEED NOR WANT YOURS TOO, SO GET OVER IT.
    ONE CAN’T HELP BUT WONDER HOW OUR PERSONA’S ARE BEING USED IN ALL THESE PRAYER GROUPS.PROBABLY AS A WARNING TO CHILDREN IN SUNDAY SCHOOLS.

  30. Maz Herman said

    F.L.A Now I’m a whiner am I? How is it that you come over to me not just with a really bad attitude, but arrogant and proud. And I don’t know everything about Wicca but I had a friend who was involved in witchcraft etc. and she came to know Jesus as her Savior. She was a lovely person.

  31. F. L. A. said

    IT SOUNDED LIKE WHAT I WOULD LABEL AS WHINING.I DID NOT THINK THAT YOU WOULD TAKE IT SO HARD.YOU MUST BE A VERY SENSITIVE WOMAN.
    THE ARROGANCE AND PRIDE COMES FROM NEVER LOSING BATTLES WITH MEN AND WOMEN.IN CASE YOU MISSED IT IN A PAST POST, I DO LABEL MYSELF AS A MONSTER, YOU KNOW.
    AND THERE ARE MAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNY FORMS OF WHAT COULD BE CALLED “WITCHCRAFT”. AND IT MATTERS NOT TO ME ANYWAY.
    HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THE MENTION OF ALL OF THE CONFLICTING CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS?

  32. John said

    Bad attitude, eh Mrs.Herman?
    We have been no ruder to you than Educated Dawg has been to us, but you didn’t criticize him,…oh I forgot that that was alright, him being one of the “good guys” and all.
    What do you care what a couple of primeval throwbacks like us think about anything anyway?

  33. Educated Dawg said

    John,
    I do not recall being rude to you or F.L.A. If I have, that was not my desire to come across as that.

    Now to address all the Christian denominations issue. First, there is only one body of Christ made up of many local assemblies. The denominational labels came from people splintering into different groups following certain “teachers” or set of doctrines.

    There are fundamental core beliefs that all true believers agree on. This sets us apart from Mormons, Jehovah’s witnesses, Moonies, Campbellites, Unitarians, etc.

    Also, no matter how many denominations there are, still doesn’t affect the authenticity or accuracy of the scriptures at all. Nor does it change the nature and Sovereignty of Jesus Christ neither.

    I personally do not attend a denominational church. I don’t see it in Scripture. Does that mean I would consider the Baptist or Presbyterian a nonbeliever? no.

    We are secure in Christ and His word. That is why we bolding proclaim what we do. It’s not about winning a debate. It’s about proclaiming Jesus Christ as Lord of All and Savior of the world. Again, our faith stands or falls on the resurrection.

    Prove it was a sham and you destroy our hope. Bold statement? Yep. As the little boy on the ‘Christmas story’ would say – “I triple dog dare you” 🙂

  34. Willie said

    Prove it was a sham and you destroy our hope.

    Can you prove that the Buddha didn’t ascend into heaven? ‘Cause that is what me and my friends believe. Prove it didn’t happen and I’ll stop believing it.

  35. Fred said

    Forget that, disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster and you’ll be getting somewhere!

    http://www.venganza.org/

  36. Educated Dawg said

    to buddha, heaven is a mindset not a physical place.

    don’t you think the Jewish leaders of Jesus’ day would have brought forth the proof that He didn’t resurrect. Yet, even they couldn’t produce a body nor explain why the disciples of Jesus preached about Him.

    Josephus a Jewish historian of that era documents that Jesus of Nazereth was a real person. Dr Kennedy was quoting some skeptics of the 1930’s and even they admitted that there was no evidence to dispute the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Come on, its been 2000+ yrs and no one has proven the resurrection to be false. Obviously there are many that want it to be, but is it?

    Muhammad desperately tried and it is documented in the Koran and Hadith.

  37. Fred said

    How does one prove a negative? On the other hand, there are perfectly reasonable explanations for the origins of the resurrection story of Jesus that you can have at. Maybe you can disprove them?

  38. Anonymous said

    Fred exists. So there. Negative proven. 🙂

  39. Fred said

    Har har har…at least my dog likes me.

    The resurrection (a implausible event) is not proven by the absence of a body. We can think of more plausible explanations for the absence of Jesus’ body. Perhaps Mr. Dawg would address those?

    But it’s an intellectual exercise only. One’s faith does not dissappear when the light of reason is shone upon it. It’s not like Mr. Dawg relies on scientific examinations for his faith.

    That would be blasphemous, right?

  40. F. L. A. said

    EDUCATED DAWG DOES NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE DO NOT CARE WHETHER OR NOT THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
    OR WHETHER OR NOT CHRISTIANS DO OR DO NOT HAVE HOPE.
    WHY WOULD WE?

  41. John said

    Why indeed?
    Getting a little off topic, are we not folks?
    Let’s debate some more about why we shouldn’t drill Osama Ben Laden with hollow-point bullets[smile].

  42. Educated Dawg said

    Y’all have at it. I’ll close my remarks by answering the question: Can God save Osama Bin Ladin? Yes, He can!

    Have a nice night 🙂

  43. stu's #1 fan!!!!!!!! said

    ok john i must ask you. Why do you write the phrase [smile]?
    it is kinda well just odd?
    and i know that God can save Osama Bin Ladin!!!!!

  44. John said

    Hello Stu’s#1 Fan!!!!!!!!, how are you?
    First of all, I am odd.I just barely qualify as a human.
    But to get to the point,I add things like that to my posts to help convey humor, or other things as the case may be.When one reads these responses one cannot always tell if something was said in anger, jest, etc.etc. so I do that to……help make myself a little more understood, so people will understand my intentions.
    Take it literally.For example, in post#41 I was really smiling as I finished typing my message.
    Understand now[slight smile, with one raised eyebrow]?

  45. Ivy said

    Hi, all. I really shouldn’t be posting as it is kind of the antithesis of what I’m about to write. But to my point…To my Christian brothers and sisters, remember Jesus warns us not to throw our pearls before swine. There are people who are of the world, who love darkness, on whom light is shone and they run from it. THEY LOVE THE DARKNESS. I believe FLA said as much in post #31 and John has alluded to through his lust for blood (post #11 and 41).

    John, Fred, FLA – you guys may think that’s mean and intolerant to say, but well, you know what… God is an intolerant God. He won’t stand for unrighteousness from anyone. That’s why He came down wrapped in flesh to save the world if they would only come to Him; He doesn’t want anyone to parish, but He allows everyone to freely choose who they will serve. You make the wrong choice, you go to hell. You make the right choice, you spend eternity celebrating with Him.

    Sure sure – I know you don’t care what God thinks of you. But I just wonder, what in the world are you doing on a site that focuses on Christian worldviews/topics? What do you expect from people who claim the name of Christ? I really don’t get why you guys are on here. Though I do hope that at some point, something gets through to you and you come to Jesus.

    And BTW, God can save anyone, even Bin Laden. As He so plainly states, He will show mercy on whom He chooses to show mercy.

  46. John said

    And we shall show mercy to whom we chose as well.
    I remember you, Ivy. You’ve been quiet for awhile.Welcome back into the limelights.
    If you’ve read our post’s for awhile then I would think that our motivations would be clear to you. I come to study those who are different from myself, F. L. A. comes for amusment. We do not love the darkness, but we are honest and true to ourselves, and we have never denied that we are violent predators, and “not good people”, at least by most Christian standards.Other people may disagree with that, but they are not the kind of people that you would probably agree with anyway.
    It was cute how you condemned us and then went on to preach about the mercy of God.I do think that people like you are intolerant, as well as hypocritical.But this does not matter to me or F. L. A. very much at all, and in fact it makes you all the more interesting.And we already deduced this about your deity, but that does not concern us either.I’d try to explain why, but you should already know, I think.

  47. F. L. A. said

    AND I AM NOT A GUY.

  48. Ivy said

    Hi, John. I know you remember me and I you. My personal opinion is that you and FLA (et al) are antagonistic. Showing mercy (and I wasn’t saying that I was the merciful one, by the way – I was talking about God’s mercy) is about withholding deserving punishment. We all deserve punishment. God will give us mercy through the shed blood of His son Jesus, if we repent and believe in His work on the cross. I don’t see where you get intolerance out of that. Mercy is not the same as tolerance. God does show mercy; He is not tolerant. Tolerance as a term has been twisted by materialistic humanists who would like to paint Christians as the true evildoers. Ok, have at it..

    When I question your motivation, I am saying that I personally find your (et al) presence exhausting and oppressive. Persecutiorial (my word), if you will. It makes it hard to enjoy this site.

    I hope I didn’t imply that any human on this earth was good. Righteousness comes from God and belongs to God only. We humans in and of ourselves can never be righteous. Christians dwelling in the flesh can never be righteous. It’s not about Good versus Bad when it comes to man’s state. It’s about Life versus Death. I choose Life.

  49. John said

    Hello again Ivy, thank you for your reply.Where do I get the idea of Christian intolerance from? Why, you said yourself that God is an intolerant God in the middle of post#45. Now, I’m not so awful sure about that sometimes, but you sure seem to be though, so we can use this as an example.But that’s enough of that, I think.
    I WOULD like to imply that a human[well, any sentient being]can be good, although some can’t or choose not to be, and that those who chose to be evil should be punished.And the more evil the person, the more horrendous the punishment.I too show mercy, and for someone as evil acting as the people that I mentioned in post#6, well…..reread that post.
    I am sorry if you find the presence of myself or my friend F. L. A. to be too hostile or intense to the point that it keeps you from enjoying this site.What do you expect from a guy who has described himself in the past with words such as “pirate”, “monster”,”weird”,”predator”,”shark”,”a Pagan pain in the ass”, “murderer”,”Witch”,and as an “old crocodile in the river of life”?
    I exist within a strange and terrifying world, and sometimes painful death is only a few steps away, hiding under the greenery.Life has made me cynical,hard,suspicious,dangerous, morbid, and has blessed me with a strange sense of humor.
    I have never claimed to be good, Ivy, only honest,with myself and others.If you find the two of us[or just me] too much to bare then why don’t you just try to ignore my posts like some of the other people here have claimed to?

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