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Does the creation/evolution debate matter when it comes to politics?

Posted by truthtalklive on December 10, 2007

Sitting in for Stu today is Gary DeMar with American Vision (www.garydemar.com)

If you want to call in today, please use his number 1-800-982-GARY (4279)

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21 Responses to “Does the creation/evolution debate matter when it comes to politics?”

  1. MonkeyMan said

    Go ahead Gary. Maybe some of the influential Christians can get in touch with Huckabee and school him on the creation/evolution debate.

    Look at what all Oprah is doing for Obama. Surely there are Christians out there that can get together and support a political candidate who makes it clear he is a Christian?

    We need to take the atheists and evolutionists to task: Where is the evidence? What is their basis for right & wrong? Who determines morality?

    Excellent show tonight.

    Peace > MonkeyMan

  2. ADB said

    Couldn’t hear much of the show tonight. For some reason our station drops off the air about 20 minutes in. Some very good points made in what I did hear. To be in a position in which there is nothing beyond us, nothing for which to live or die for is ultimately most pitiable. Lennon was a great musician, but otherwise an airhead.

  3. Fred said

    Gary DeMar is wrong on many levels, but what really bugs me is that he doesn’t seem to understand the scientific method. Many times he says things like (and I’m paraphrasing) “it’s only a theory”, or “they don’t have proof”, or “they can’t account for creation” when he is trying to discount science.

    Hypotheses are what scientists do, Gary. They don’t deal in “proof” of anything. They observe phenomena, collect data and hypothesize. Experiments may or may not support their hypotheses. Theories are always open to discussion, and unlike religious dogma can be modified. Science welcomes dissent.

    When you listen to Gary’s diatribes against science, keep in mind that he is not giving you an accurate description of what science is. If you want to learn about science, get thee to a library and look up Biology, Chemistry, Geology, Archaeology, Astronomy, etc.

    Also, and I’m no philosopher, but can’t morality be explained just as well without the Bible as with it?

    Help out an old earther, someone!

    best,
    Fred

    P.S. ADB, it’s only a song!

  4. Brad said

    Fred, I’ll repeat the question here. Nobody knows what basis you’re coming from.

    Are you Christian? If so, what particular beliefs/denomination do you hold to?

    Hard to tell whether you truly don’t believe, or whether you’re just a devil’s advocate…

  5. Mike Sears said

    Fred
    You want a great philisophical explanation for morality? I uploaded a pdf copy of chapters 1-5 of Mere Christianity by CS Lewis written back in the “Good Ole Days”. Check it out. He does not use the Bible to explain the basis for morality. You can download the pdf file at this site: http://www.mediafire.com/?2dcn95xo1ds

  6. MonkeyMan said

    Fred,

    We really do need to understand what science is. If you understood what science was, then you would understand that molecules to man evolution is not science but religious thought. It cannot be verified through the scientific methods nor can it be reproduced in the science lab. I would say it is not even a theory but a part of a belief system.

    Morality is determined by truth. What Gary was speaking about was how atheists adhere to Christian concepts of morality and yet deny an dmock the very God who gave us the basis for our morality. Take the Christian God out of society and we are left with relative morality – I think it is right, so it is. My opinion is just as “truthful” as yours type beliefs.

    Gary Demar was being accurate and truthful last night. It’s not an issue of science. The greatest scientists to ever live were Christians.

    Peace > MonkeyMan

  7. Summer said

    Fred, I believe that you can have good morals without the bible or Christianity, as basically everybody, everywhere, who’s not insane agrees with what’s right and with what’s wronge.Some things ARE relative, like ,say, “the cultural laws of the land”,that change a little depending on where in the world you go.Sorry MonkyMan, but this includes religious rules too. But the “big stuff”, like rape, stealing,unjustified murder,crulety, disloyalty,lies, and sympathy,generosity,faithfulness,honesty, these are things that EVERYONE agrees on, regardless of what deities they serve, if any.There are always exeptions, but those who fall into this catagory still KNOW the difference between what’s right and what’s wronge.They simply make a choice.
    Many great scientist were also non-Christians, MonkyMan.Who were these “greatest scientist” of whom you refer to[Ken Ham don’t count]?Just wondering, is all.

  8. MonkeyMan said

    Summer,

    Where does your morality come from? Who determines if your values are correct? You say lying is wrong. How do you determine that? Hitler truly believed he was helping society, even speeding up the evolutionary process. How can American society deem that wrong? We say murder is wrong, yet abortion is acceptable. Other cultures believe cannibalism is acceptable. How can America impose its brand of morality on others if we have no basis but majority rule from what we consider moral or amoral?

    You can do a simple search on the web to get a list of some great Christian scientists of the past and today. And Ken Ham doesn’t consider himself a scientist. AiG does have secular university accredited scientists on staff however.

    And how do you determine who is insane and who is not? Would you consider Stalin insane? What about Castro? What is your standard? Who would you say is “sane” in order to provide a comparison? Jesus Christ?

    Peace > MonkeyMan

  9. Summer said

    Also,
    Brad, why is it so important whether or not Fred is a Christian?
    Although you may not believe it, non-Christians can be[and often are]right about these sorts of things too.
    Here’s something for you to try, MonkeyMan, if you’re feeling up to it[smile].With your great understanding of science, see if you can prove scientifically that Christian religious stories tell the truth about human origins, as opposed to what the evolutionary sciences teach.Can you do it? Scientifically?You demand the same of us.So lets see you try it.

  10. Brad said

    Summer,

    I’m just trying to gauge Fred’s point of view, where he’s coming from. Christians and non-Christians usually come from very different points of view on issues such as these. For example, you and I approach this issue quite differently, as can be seen from your post #7.

    But I would ask you exactly what MonkeyMan asked you in #8 – where does the morality you speak of that is “generally accepted” come from? Why can’t I murder someone, if I want to or feel like it? Why do I inherently know (as does most everyone else) that it’s wrong to lie, steal or cheat? What is it that gives us this inherent knowledge of “right and wrong”, of “good and evil”?

    Your answers are found in Genesis 1-3, and Romans 2, by the way.

  11. Fred said

    I don’t know beans about sociology, but I can think of at least one simple answer.

    Murder is a crime now because twenty thousand years ago our hunter-gatherer ancestors depended on each other for food, shelter and clothing. The death of a productive member hurt the whole group and thus the act of killing another member hurt the survivability of the group. Members who killed other members were shunned or punished by the rest of the group. Over time this group reaction was repeated over and over, generation after generation. It became a basic moral foundation for human interaction, even well after the hunter-gatherer phase of human society ended with the advent of agriculture.

    How’s that?

    best,
    Fred

    PS – I don’t agree that knowledge of right and wrong is inherent. Certainly it is learned.

  12. Fred said

    Mike, my wife has been trying to get me to read that for 25 years now. Maybe it’s time I do.

    Happy Holidays,
    Fred

  13. Fred said

    MonkeyMan, I have an understanding of science, and though I disagree with your description of the scientific method, but allow me to say season’s greetings and happy holidays!

    Fred

    PS Gary DeMar gets switches and coal!

  14. Mike Sears said

    Fred
    You know, I have learned the moral lesson… that I should take heed of my wife’s advice!! Yours has some good advice too!!;-]

  15. Mike Sears said

    Seriously Fred, the first few chapters of Mere Christianity specifically addresses the points you made in your post #11. Enjoy!!

  16. Summer said

    How we fight each other to get to this computer[grin].
    Brad, I just KNEW that’s what you’d reply.As if the answer could only be grounded in Middle Eastern theology.
    I agree with what Fred said in post #11, and also because I believe that almost all intelligent life has a conscience, which you’d think ONLY comes from your God, but I disagree.
    MonkeyMan, are you actually serious about not understanding the concept of a lie and insanity, or just trying to be like Brad?
    You didn’t respond to my challenge and you didn’t give me any names.Good night.

  17. MonkeyMan said

    Summer,

    Seems like you have a problem with Christians.

    I answered you. Do a search on “Christian scientists” and see who all is pulled up. Do a search on “creationist scientists” and see who all is pulled up.

    Science confirms that we all descended from one human being. the discovery channel did a special on this, even called the first person Adam – that’s one confirmation for the Scriptures; Genesis 1 & 2. Science says the earth is a sphere – that’s another confirmation for the Scriptures. Science says that blood is the life source of all creatures – that’s three confirmations for the Scriptures. And there are many other examples.

    Can we go to the science lab and confirm a literal 7 day creation week no more than 10,000 yrs ago? No. No more than an evolutionist can scientifically prove we evolved from dust – oh yeah, that’s 4 confirmations for Scripture. Science does teach that our makeup is “dust”. Evolution and Biblical creation are interpretations of the evidence that is left behind from past events. Since no human was there “in the beginning”, we as young-earth creationist Christians accept the words of the One who was there, God Himself. Design demands a Designer and so forth. No other interpretation is consistant nor makes real sense. “We evolved over billions of years through chance, circumstance and just plain luck. There is no God but self. We live for self and we die never again to rise, except as foder for plants and animals as they battle through the survival of the fittest and evolutionary advancement.” Treat a human like an animal. Degrade him to a platform no higher than a dung bettle. Then wonder why he begins to bite and attack the hand that feeds him. Evolution has nothing to offer, except self preservation. Biblical creation and ultimately the God(Jesus Christ) who created has all that we need.

    Also, you did not answer my questions in #8.

    Peace > MonkeyMan

  18. Summer said

    You’re so disapointing, MonkeyMan.
    I did not answer your questions because I don’t think that you actually want to learn anything about me/us as so much as try to find a way to twist it around and glorify your own theological opinions.This is what Brad does, which is why I didn’t respond to his last post either.Brad, we’ve been over this befor on different sites.It was a waste of time then, as it would be a waste of time now. Remember when you were offered a chance to learn about our religious commandments, but you declined because you didn’t care what they were?You even gave us the impression that you knew what the first 10 were already.Yeah right, as if they were the same as yours!That was seen as a big clue as to what your motivations were.
    You keep mentioning bible verses that alledgedly support your claims,MonkeyMan, but never say what they are or where to find them.We have been pouring through our collection of bibles[we have 4, and John has 17] and have found no scripture to back up your claims about the earth being a sphere, either!How hard do we have to use our imaganations to see it in the proper “context”?
    I give up on you MonkeyMan.John is better at playing this game anyway.

  19. MonkeyMan said

    Peace Summer, peace.

    You have 4 Bibles and I’ve given 2 websites for Bible study. You can also go to ICR.org for scientific evidence in support of Bible verses.

    You are the skeptic, surely you are willing to go the extra mile to disprove the Bible?

    Isn’t there some kind of mantra you can say or hum so you’re not so angry in your posts?

    Have a great day.

    Peace > MonkeyMan

  20. John said

    Summer is relieving stress outside with a sword.
    See you on another site.

  21. Peter said

    Gary made a comment that had me a little concerned. He was discussing whether an evolution-believing judge could render a decision that was based on right and wrong, since if he didn’t believe in God, there could be no standard of right and wrong.

    Although I understand the point he was trying to make, I think he has made a fundamental error in his view on the role of judges.

    Judges should make decisions based on the LAW, not what is right and wrong. If the law is wrong, there are provisions to have it changed. (Elect in a different representative, ballot initiatives, constitutional amendments, etc). When a judge bases his/her decision on their own opinions, we end up with decisions like Roe v. Wade, which wasn’t based on the law, but rather on what a majority of the justices thought was “right.”

    If you set a precedent of a religious litmus test for judges, it might work out great if the person appointing the judge is “on your side.” But the precedent will still be in place when someone else is in office as well. And then this judicial activism that you are advocating may turn around and cause greater damage in the long run.

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