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Supporting our troops this Christmas

Posted by truthtalklive on December 3, 2007

How do we prevent another Vietnam?

Todays guest is Phil Downer of The Discipleship Network of America (www.downer.org)


11 Responses to “Supporting our troops this Christmas”

  1. Troy said

    A 1995 report from the Institute for Policy Studies (IPS) found that we had already surpassed the cost of the (eight year period) Vietnam war, adjusted for inflation of course. It also found that staying in Iraq and Afghanistan at then current levels would nearly double the projected federal budget deficit over the next decade. The number of journalists killed in the Iraq war already had exceeded that of Vietnam in 1995. The troop fatalities will eventually exceed that of Vietnam if what our leaders are saying holds true, that this is some kind of indefinite war. Not to mention we may already be nearing Vietnam levels when deaths after combat (those wounded that survive to die away from the theater) are taken into account.

    But to answer the question, there is only one way I can see to prevent another Vietnam. Bring the troops home as soon as possible and not invade more countries to “free them”.

  2. Valerie said

    Wow, Troy burns my buttons. It is exactly people like Troy that caused Viet Nam to be so horrible. I would also like to point out that we now have a 100% volunteer military, they believe in what they are doing, you can not support the troop without supporting the mission. Troy will be one of the guys spitting on our current hero’s. If people would just study the end times and our current middle east situation, they would know we must be there.

    About the American_Angels@yahoo.com or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Angels
    we crochet herofphacans for our wounded, sew cool ties, crochet slippers and send everything we can get our hands on that our men and woman in Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan.
    Also visit http://www.anysoldier.com/WhereToSend/ then on the left side sort troops by #served, that brings up all the Chaplin’s. I have also adopted and send to several individual units.

    This current year we have sent 500 Christmas trees with the decorations. If every listener adopted a Unit and sent 1 box priority, I bet God would speed it’s delivery. My boxes usually take 8-10 days.

  3. Fred said

    I knew it was all Troy’s fault!

  4. John said

    Valerie, I think you’re being a little too hard on Troy.It is possible to support a troop without supporting it’s mission.

    Troy, I fear such a thing will never come to pass.Humans are a war-like species.There will always be someone to “free” or “help”or “disarm”.

  5. Troy said

    Wow. Valerie, first off, I was answering the question of the thread with facts. The question was “How do we prevent another Vietnam?” I compared the two “conflicts” with real facts, emotions aside, and then gave an answer.

    Secondly, I would never be “one of the guys spitting on our current hero’s.” For your information, I served voluntarily myself, to include in combat and was “reactivated” for Desert Storm. I’m not tooting my own horn but you are barking at the wrong guy. You need to understand that there is a difference in supporting the troops and supporting immoral, failed and unconstitutional foreign policy. If I were some peace nick or “chicken hawk” (like most of our politicians, including most in the current administration)it would be one thing, but I’ve been there… have you? You have bought into the false idea that you must blindly support the action to support the troops. That, mam, is unpatriotic to the core.

    Thirdly, your statement that this is an all volunteer military is not completely true either. Most combat units are in “stop-loss”. That means that individuals are prevented from ETSing when there time is up. Many are on their fourth and fifth tours. That was not even common in Vietnam. Do you know that there are over one hundred thousand disabled from the first Gulf War? Many of those are from depleted uranium exposure and get little or no help from the DOD or the VA. (google “gulf war vets”). We have used much more depleted uranium since the early 90’s and especially in the current conflict.

    Then we have the National Guard debacle. State units should not even be overseas and many who enlisted for the NG would have done so with that understanding. The services have lowered the entry standards to now allow felons and much lower test scores to enlist. What about that makes any sense? That is your “100% volunteer military.”

    The last thing I’ll point out to you is that of all the candidates running for President next year which one has received the most military and veteran campaign contributions of any party? It is the sole Republican who voted to go into Afghanistan but not Iraq and has promised to bring the troops home as soon as he can as President, Ron Paul. You may want to go find out why he has the military support. You can verify that with the FEC if you’d like.

    Now what in the world about my first post confused you? It’s all facts. Prayerfully consider these facts. You can support the troops and still stand for truth. It is great that you are sending them items for support. From experience I can say that is great comfort to them. But don’t confuse patriotism with blind loyalty to an imperialistic foreign policy. The best thing that could be given to them would be to bring them out of that civil war and return them to their families.

  6. Troy said

    By the way, I have to correct my first post. The report from the Institute for Policy Studies (IPS)that I sited was published in 2005 not 1995.

  7. Troy said

    Valerie, now I must address the other part of your reply. Please give some kind of source to back up your claim that “If people would just study the end times and our current middle east situation, they would know we must be there.”

    Could you give some verses and the context and the present day tie or something? I mean, that kind of general statement flies in the face of sound doctrine unless you can be specific with some rightly divided Word. Did I miss the verse where Jesus said that Christians would militarily occupy the middle east prior to Christ’s return or something? Help us understand.

    I’ll say this much, to believe that we are to act, as a nation or individuals, according to an idea or interpretation of “end time prophecy” that is contrary to the revealed character of God as to what our morality should be as Christians is dangerous. This kind of thinking leads to attempted self fulfillment of events that only God himself can cause. And nations that do this typically destroy themselves.

  8. Troy said

    Not going to get an answer from Valerie?

  9. Valerie said

    Actually, the notes and e-mails I get from the troops all say you can’t support them if you aren’t supporting their mission. Many ask why people are mad at them. The last e-mail I got says they are requesting more beanie babies because the children and their parents are starting to “turn in the bad guys”. This a an ALL volunteer Military! They are there by choice and will fight to the death for your “right to be WRONG”.
    Here are some more active sights to really support our troops:

    This is the first time I’ve been available with web access! Not everyone has cushy jobs with computers in front of them. Sorry for the delay!

    Did Jesus not say that there would be Wars and Rumors of Wars? Doesn’t it also say in the Old Testament that When the world is as Sodom and Gamora then Christ is near? I am currently traveling down the road and I am not able to read while moving. So I can’t get the address’ for these but I know I have read them in the Bible.

  10. Troy said

    Valerie, it’s as if you read nothing I wrote.

    Again, I was answering the question of the post, “How do we prevent another Vietnam?” with facts and sources. You have still done neither but instead are reeling in “patriotic” emotion. It’s noble, but ill informed and not patriotic. And you commenced to claim that I am the type of person who “caused the Vietnam war” and that I would be “spitting on our current heroes”? What is wrong with you? Go back and read my reply to you a couple of times. You are seriously confused lady. Have you served in combat for your country or even been in the military? I doubt it. I have.

    Again, NO this is not a completely volunteer military anymore. Individuals are being prevented from leaving the service well after their terms are up through “stop loss”, to include the National Guard, tens of thousands of them.(See: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june05/stop-loss_2-24.html or do a search – “stop loss iraq”) Not to mention the National Guard is not supposed to be overseas but rather has a mission to defend the actual homeland of the States. That’s just the beginning. What about the tens of thousands of veterans that are disabled since just the first gulf war, including new vets that can not get their government to help them after leaving service? But you probably don’t know about them. They could use some of those care packages. Again do some searches (Google) gulf war vets, depleted uranium. If you really care.

    As for the “good” we are doing over there, this is true of any country where American troops operate, after we attack. Most troops are like any American, good people. I did this in Honduras and Panama where most of the public loved us being there, at first. Of course, they never want us occupying their land for long. Yea, we do some good, but that fact does not justify immoral foreign policy and foreign intervention that is entered into ignoring our Constitution.

    You can claim we are supposed to be there all you want but I’ve been part of American foreign policy from a military stand point and it generally is neither moral, Christian or Constitutional, regardless of the good intentions of those involved.

    By the way, I would love to see the actual troops “notes and e-mails” that say specifically that “you can’t support them if you aren’t supporting their mission.” Besides this, the fact is troop opinion does not make the war right or wrong. But feel free to show the actual quotes that say that specifically. I’d rather you get educated on this mess first so don’t let my request get in the way of actually looking into the facts I’ve listed.

    One other thing you can look into and that is how do you suppose we are paying for this holy war of ours? Another fact for you… we are borrowing it, primarily from countries like China (Almost half of US bonds are held in Asia). But that will probably just detract you from getting up to speed.

    I’ll ask you again, because I’ve “studied the end times” and can’t find it, where exactly in scripture is America supposed to occupy Iraq and plan to stay in the Middle East? Be specific please.

  11. Troy said

    By the way, who accused you of having a “cushy” job with a computer in front of you? Did I miss a post?

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