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Is there a difference gay marriage being moral and gay marriage being legal?

Posted by truthtalklive on November 21, 2007

Todays guest host: Allen Hunt www.theallenhuntshow.com .

1-877-70-ALLEN is the number today if you want to call in.

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33 Responses to “Is there a difference gay marriage being moral and gay marriage being legal?”

  1. F. L. A. said

    WELL,AT LEAST THEY’LL NEVER HAVE ABORTIONS,RIGHT?
    LET THEM GET MARRIED, SO THEY CAN SUFFER AND GET EXPENSIVE DIVORCES LIKE OTHER COUPLES.I’M TIRED OF THEY’RE HAPPY-GO-LUCKY LIFE STYLES[HUGE,SHARP-TOOTHED GRIN].

  2. Elijah said

    Spoken like a true Christian.

  3. Ted said

    Oh, this will be interesting. Judging from previous posts I don’t believe F.L.A is a Christian. Elijah – are you omnipotent?

  4. F. L. A. said

    NO TED, I AM NOT. ON A SITE THAT DEBATES WHETHER OR NOT MORMONS AND CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIANS, FELLOW MEN AND WOMEN,THEN THERE IS NO WAY[ACCORDING TO THE MAJORITY OPINION OF THOSE HERE] THAT ONE SUCH AS MYSELF COULD EVER BE,EVEN IF I CHOSE TO BE.WHICH I DO NOT.

    ELIJAH…. DID YOU GIVE YOURSELF THIS NAME?
    I COULD NOT TELL HOW TO INTERPRET YOUR STATEMENT.

  5. Buddy Timm said

    Allen,
    The contradictory argument for legalizing gay marriage while holding that sodomy is immoral sounds like a Jimmy Carter Position- which is laughable and lacks logic. God’s Word will judge all, the individual, the state, and even nations today. If our consciences are held captive to the Word of God; why is someone wanting to legalize that which is an abomination, and a capital crime, according to God’s Word. Remember, His judgments are forever, He does not change his mind!

  6. F. L. A. said

    I’VE BEEN THINKING ELIJAH, THAT PERHAPS YOU DID NOT REALIZE THAT MY FIRST REPLY, ABOUT HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE WAS SAID IN “JEST”.AM I WRONG?
    ALTHOUGH I HAVE NO LIPS AND WEAR AN ETERNAL GRIN,I TRY TO MAKE A POINT OF MENTIONING THIS REDUNDANT FEATURE WHEN I AM TRYING TO EXPRESS HUMOR OR PLEASURE OVER SOMETHING.AND SO YOU KNOW.

  7. Elijah said

    I did think that, FLA. Apparently they are refusing to post my comments now. If you are already carrying the mantle of freethought here then perhaps I am not needed.

    Elijah

    Also- please, no more capslock.

  8. Elijah said

    I would like to know if Buddy Timm wants to keep all the Old Testament laws or just the ones that nicely confirm his prejudices.

  9. Anonymous said

    Again with gay marriage? The only laws that the government makes regarding religious ceremonies (even ones that you don’t like) are tax laws.

    Gay marriage isn’t legal or illegal. Why should two people living together be illegal?

    Oh, I forgot, you live in the fundie version of America where we are all free to be right wing conservative fundamentalist Christians.

    My bad.

  10. John and company[grin] said

    The abbreveations for IT’S name are F. L. A.
    Please continue posting.Free thinking is always welcom here, I think.Always room for more[smile]. Happy Thanks Giving.

  11. John said

    For me this is like debating about whether or not cigar smoking is moral and should be legalized.It’s not for me, but I still feel that people should have the right. As long as it’s between consenting adults, where’s the harm? Who cares?I know this does not conform to Christianity,but hey, love is strange.And you’re all born in sin anyway……..On the show, the safty and well-being of “the children” was mentioned, that they all need fathers and mothers[one of each, that is] for a proper upbringing.But I’ve known many adults and children raised in heterosexual households that became compleate jerks, sociopaths, bigots, idiots, drunks, adulterers, etc. etc. And out of all the gay couples that I’ve known,only one of them has a child, who’s growing up just fine.Homosexuality is not contagious,after all.Maybe homosexuality is different outside the state of Florida?[Smile]
    Well, breaks over,back to the feasting!

  12. The contradictory argument for legalizing gay marriage while holding that sodomy is immoral sounds like a Jimmy Carter Position- which is laughable and lacks logic. God’s Word will judge all, the individual, the state, and even nations today. If our consciences are held captive to the Word of God; why is someone wanting to legalize that which is an abomination, and a capital crime, according to God’s Word. Remember, His judgments are forever, He does not change his mind!

    You have got to be kidding me. First of all, does your theology really believe that God is only blessing the USA because we have successfully kept homosexuals from marriage? Ohh but He can turn a blind eye to pornography and divorce, and continue to bless us, but not homosexuality. That’s the straw that breaks “the Camels” back huh?

    Again with gay marriage? The only laws that the government makes regarding religious ceremonies (even ones that you don’t like) are tax laws.

    I know…I know…when Allen and I were debating the issue on what topic to do we sort of felt the same way. This had more to do with the fact Allen was REALLY sick when doing this show and we needed something that I disagreed with him and could carry a good chunk of the show myself.

    For me this is like debating about whether or not cigar smoking is moral and should be legalized.It’s not for me, but I still feel that people should have the right. As long as it’s between consenting adults, where’s the harm? Who cares?

    Exactly. I just don’t get why, as Christians, we feel we have to legislate morality (which we don’t do to its entirety anyways because we allow all sorts of immoral activity to be legal). I think in the long run this actually hurts the church’s ability to thrive as the “light of the world.”

  13. Stephen Guidetti said

    Yes there is a differance. In America we have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. IT is legal under our laws, but still imoral under Gods laws. Under God we have the right to sin or not to sin. But we will eventually pay for those sins.

  14. Douglas said

    How convenient. We continue to consume so much energy over the issue of homosexuality making it the “mother of all sins,” while overlooking the main thrust of the bible which is God’s love for all people. It is called “Grace.” Read the bible and you will find that the prophets and Jesus spent most of their time preaching and teaching about the sins of greed and power.
    GREED AND POWER. I’ll say it again because most churches are missing this today…GREED AND POWER, is what Jesus spent most of his time condemning. NOT HOMOSEXUALITY. And he preached peace and non-violence.This is inarguable. It cannot be debated away. Read the Gospels. Yet most good Christian folks support the war in Iraq, capital punishment, rampant materialism, greed and power. How unchristian. We are supporting the exact things the propehts condemned and railed against.
    Wake up Christians to what is really important or we will lose our souls.

    praying that we can pay more attention to what the bible is really saying,
    doug

  15. Mike Sears said

    It’s really very simple Douglas. The reason Christ spent so much time preaching against greed and power was because those are the sins that the “self-righteous” are blinded to because they thought that could (and were) follow (ing) “God’s Law”, being blinded by pride in their actions and not realizing they were just as far away from God as the “Obvious” sinners. The adulterers, thieves, homosexuals, and such. There was no need back then to tell a homosexual they were a sinner. That was a given.

    You’re right about the Grace though. It is as available to a homosexual as it is to a self-centered prude like me. Praise God for that!!

  16. Douglas said

    Well said about the issue of Greed and Power. I agree.
    I do not agree that homosexuality is a sin.
    We all do need to lean on God’s grace.
    I certainly don’t know all the answers but pray that God can lead us in dialog and understanding.
    Yes! Praise God for grace and forgiveness.

  17. John said

    “I do not agree that homosexuality is a sin.”-DOUGLAS
    And why not? I was just wondering.
    Welcome to the “Heretics Club”, Douglas[grin].
    Good luck.

  18. Joe said

    Which version of the Bible are you guys reading where it says that homosexuality is NOT a sin?

    Or, are you reading some other book?…..perhaps the Book of Mormon, otherwise known as “Jesus, The Western”

  19. John said

    Hello, Joe!
    If I was one of those guys that you were talking too[If not then sorry to but in like this.], then know this, that I have seventeen different versions of the Christian bible[Do you really want me to name them all?] as well as copies of the Koran and the Torah.And they all condemn homosexuality, with a death sentence! But aside from my belief that this promotes unfair bigotry to fellow humans as well as a lot of self-hate for so many people,it matters very little to me at all.I am not a Christian.
    The Deities that I serve do not condemn homosexuality.
    Is your curiosity satisfied?

  20. Joe said

    Oh Lord, here we go. If you’re not a Christian, then what are you? I bet there are plenty of different versions of your religion too. Some that even think homosexuality is wrong….even sinful. Thing is….all Chrisitan denominations draw inspiration from the Bible. Even Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses draw some from the Good Book. It’s pretty clear in the Word. Plain as black and white.

  21. John said

    What indeed…..[chuckle,chuckle, grin].
    I’m a……………………..predatory,Pagan,pain in the ass, is what I am.Ask anybody.I’m a Wiccan Witch of the most primitive denomination that I know of.See “Interview with a Wiccan, listed in Apologetics” for more help.Yessss,MANY versions, as there are types of birds in the skies of the earth.I don’t know of any that regard homosexuality as “sinful”, though.But then, what do you expect out of a Pagan religion[smile]?
    Gotta go now Joe.Until the next time,
    John.

  22. Brad said

    Douglas, you’re clearly wrong about your interpretation that homosexuality isn’t a sin – it’s pretty clear in the Bible. And if that interpretation is wrong, realize that many (including myself) won’t lend a lot of weight to any other interpretation you might give, if you apparently read Scripture so poorly.

    I would advise to look again at what the Word has to say about the matter, and give us your reason for why you think it’s NOT a sin. I’d love to know.

  23. ADB said

    Too a limited extent I agree with Douglas. Many Christians do end up creating some sort of hierarchy of sin. In so doing they hold up homosexuality as being far more grave than adultery, theft, etc. At times we can end up with decidedly un-Christian attitudes and conduct toward them, despite the “love the sinner, hate the sin” cliche.
    With that as a disclaimer, in my opinion, it is real tough sledding exegetically to defend homosexual conduct scripturally. The references to it in the Torah and in the epistles are strong, but even stronger is the argument from creation. However,the church must be open to all poeple if want all people to know the saving grace of Christ. The real problem comes in determining how to be welcoming to everyone without appearing to condone behavior which we disapprove. My two cents worth.

    A curmudgeonly pastor 😉

  24. F. L. A. said

    “Let brotherly love continue.
    Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.-Bible,Hebrews13:1-2

    I LIKED YOUR TWO CENTS WORTH.

  25. Mike Sears said

    You’re right ADB. I have been inviting my “Gay” neighbor to church ever since she moved in. She is totally intimidated at the thought because of the way she is treated by “most” Christians. It is really sad how we push them away with our(The church’s) self righteous piety!

  26. Joe said

    Wow, John….that’s pretty interesting. As a Christian, I’m always interested in other religion’s perspectives. It’s important for all of us to understand one another because whether we like it or not, we still have to live on this planet together. But I believe the Bible to be the Truth, so I go by what I read in the Book. I read your comments on “Interview with a Wiccan.” I will be praying for you, whether you care or not.

  27. Brad said

    ADB, I said Douglas was wrong for saying homosexuality WASN’T a sin. You say you agree with him to an extent, in that we do tend to create a hierarchy of sin. That’s not what my disagreement or comment was about to Douglas; I addressed his specific point that he didn’t believe it to be a sin. In that point, he is wrong. We can call it “tough sledding exegetically” or whatever we want to, but the bottom line is that line of thinking is wrong.

    I do agree that there is no hierarchy of sin, and homosexuality is sin just like lying is sin. What it is, however, is often a more VISIBLE sin. Not always, but sometimes. I’m not saying for a second that it’s any WORSE than any other sin. But many people often err in being TOO cautious and TOO accomodating, and end up not calling it a sin, so as to not come off as “unfriendly” or “intolerant.” I don’t believe that’s right, either.

    A lot of “gay” people can say they are pushed off by Christian’s attitudes, and I don’t discount that at all. A lot of attitudes are poor, and a lot of people (both X’n and non-X’n) have trouble separating the sin from the sinner. However, what many gay people don’t want to accept is that homosexuality IS indeed a sin, and to come to a church that is not afraid to say so makes them feel uncomfortable, b/c they are having to either accept that they are leading a sinful lifestyle, or having to run from church. That’s a sin problem. It’s no different than getting told that lying or greed is a sin.

  28. ADB said

    Brad,
    My point was not to disagree with you at all. I was agreeing with Douglas to the extent that he complained about Christians having a hierarchy of sin. I do agree with you that Biblically it is impossible to condone homosexual conduct. I was simply pointing out the difficulty of welcoming and reaching out to people without appearing to condone conduct that we disapprove of.

  29. John said

    Hey Joe,
    This Friday we are all throwing a birthday party for a soon to be 7 year old little girl named Leea Gardner that we are friends with.She is suffering from a type of cancer called Rhabdomyosarcoma.It’s in her belly.I’d love to say that she’s doing better, that her biggest worry is whether or not other kids will make fun of her now bald head,……. but I can’t.We are counting the months[sigh….].

    Save your prayers for her,her family, and others like them, instead of me.

  30. Joe said

    John – That is heart-breaking, definitely. I don’t care what religion, denomination or whatever you are. Stories and situations like that are crushing and everyone from every religion should pray for Leea and other terminally ill children and their families. My family and I will pray for her tonight. We will probably pray for you too though.

  31. John said

    Thank you, Joe.I’ll tell them all about it.It means a lot for some people to know that others are praying for them.It’s all that I can do myself.I’m not allowed to do any healing magick an her.It’s hard to keep myself from crying after spending time with her.
    Pray for me if you wish.There’s no harm in it.

  32. Tommy said

    ADB I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. So many Christians act as if homosexuality is the sin of all sins. When actually a sin is a sin is a sin. If Christians would open up to homosexuals like they do other sinners, they might see a bit of opening up on their side. It is important to note though that this does not mean to condone the behavior. I had some neighbors a couple years ago that gave a great example. We had a homosexual couple move in next to us and the neighbors on the other side were what I considered at the time textbook Christians. After a few months I noticed that they would hang out form time to time, invite each other over to BBQ’s and such. One day in conversation I brought up that I was surprised that they befriended the homosexual couple. They told me that they thought and prayed very hard about it, and in the end they said, we just did what we thought Christ would do. That is to love thy neighbor.

    That really stuck with me.

  33. poopalleb said

    Of there’s a difference….. Just because the govt. Has decided to let fags be fags , doesn’t mean its OK with GOD….. Wow, I can’t even believe you had to ask.

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