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Today’s Issues, From a Biblical Perspective!

Can You be Gay and Christian?

Posted by truthtalklive on October 15, 2007

Today’s Guest: Director of Coalition of Conscience and Author of

Homosexuality, the Church, & Society

his website icnministries.org

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68 Responses to “Can You be Gay and Christian?”

  1. maria said

    I enjoyed your speaker today about the gay issues and being a Christian. It was helpful in witnessing and standing firm with Biblical background. Thank you so much for your much needed input. It appears that others think you are just being judgemental and the way he explained it was really good. We don’t want to endorse homosexuality in the church just as we don’t want to endorse any other sin.
    maria

  2. I think this question, in its form, may be confusing, though it’s been cleared up on the air. Most folks who find this blog may not have had the advantage of hearing the thrust of the question cleared up.
    Anyone can come to Christ in/from any condition or sin.

    But the bible is painfully clear that if His life is in you, you cannot continue in a sinful lifestyle as a habitual pattern of life. This covers every sin.

    It’s one thing to hate what you may struggle with and fight your way out of every temptation. It’s one thing to fail and hate it and humbly look heavenward for the mercy of God.
    It’s an entirely other thing to engage constantly with no apparent pain of conscience in sin. It’s not okay to indulge in sin and try to call yourself a christian. You’re deceived if you believe this way. An adulterer who isn’t bothered by his sin is a liar and the truth is not in him. A liar who doesn’t repent and isn’t bothered by his sin is a liar and the truth is not in him.
    A homosexual who doesn’t repent, seek the supernatural changing power of the Holy Ghost and isn’t bothered by it is a liar and the truth is not in him.

    As Dr. Brown said, the problem we have isn’t people holding “Adulterer Pride” conferences or “Stoners for Jesus” parades. We don’t have organizations called “Liars for the Gospel”. No, we have folks attempting to make clean a particular sin. So we have to deal with that particular sin. If folks were trying to make clean other sins, we’d hit those to. I say “we” as a part of the body of Christ and an attendee of FIRE church (hopefully to be on the front lines soon…)

    So this isn’t an angry man picking on someone for no reason. Trust me, he picks on everything. I’ve walked out of church after his preaching under conviction many a time, bringing actual change. He doesn’t hate any sin more than another, he hates it all and loves us all and that’s why he faithfully dispenses the hard and nice parts of the gospel.

    Dr. Brown, love you man, thanks for your faithfulness…
    mark jr.

  3. TJ - DALLAS said

    I FEEL MANY PEOPLE ARE TO CAUGHT UP INTO CLASSIFYING THEMSELVES AS SINNER’S THAT ARE SAVED, INSTEAD OF BEING SAVED AND LIVING THAT WAY; DON’T FOCUS ON YOUR PASS SINFUL LIFE YOU ARE A NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST. THEREFORE YOU CAN NOT BE A AN ACTIVE (PRACTICING) HOMEOSEXUAL OR SINNER AND CONSIDER YOURSELF SAVE AND CHRISTIAN.

  4. Jeff said

    1 Cor. 6:9-11
    Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [10] nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    This Scripture is exceedingly clear that those characterized by unrighteousness are not Christians. (Those who deliberately reject God’s word and practice what that word forbids are not saved.) This is the clear teaching of the word in other places as well (like 1 John 3).

    But at the same time, this Scriptures gives the sinner hope – God can deliver you from any sin. Notice verse 11 above, “such were some of you.” If God has worked repentance in your heart, you can turn to Christ and be saved and delivered. He receives all who turn to Him in truth:

    “But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

    Homosexuality is not the only sin, nor is it even the worst sin, but it is a sin none the less. We must not hate the individual caught in sin. Indeed, we must love him (or her) enough to tell them the truth and point them to the only source of salvation, the Lord Jesus Christ.

  5. John said

    A pity that none of the homosexuals tried to attend that discussion that Mr.Brown invited them to[if that’s the way it actually happened].It would have been most interesting to observe.
    Oh well, there’s always plenty of other religions for homosexuals to join that won’t condemn them.

  6. Mike Sears said

    I could certainly be a member of “Self Centered for Jesus”. How many of you are truly are blind to your own self centeredness, which is a form of “Greed” in the list of unrighteous traits in 1 Cor. 6:9-11? OUCH! Let’s cling to Romans 12:1-2

  7. There were some homosexuals that did attend.
    The ones who did not were the clergy who advocate it.
    Just for clarity…

    And actually, the christians themselves are not the ones who condemn sin, it’s God who condemned it from the beginning and simply gave us a thorough list of what he hates.

    Yes Mike, we know that all sin is sin, but as I said earlier nobody is holding rallies for those sins that I know of and trying to teach preschoolers to do so. I’ve never seen an advertisement for a “Greed Day in the Park” or “Self Centered for Jesus” so it’s not going to get that kind of attention in response from the christian community. And as I said earlier (can’t speak for any other preacher in America) Dr. Brown consistently renounces ALL sin from the pulpit all over the world with equity and fairness.

    mark jr.

    mark jr.

  8. ADB said

    Clearly the scripture tells us that homosexual conduct is contrary to God’s law. Sometimes people try to play linguistic games to legitimize it, but that is very tough sledding exegetically. What you can’t get around is the argument from creation. The model from the beginning is man and woman made in God’s image and joined as helpmates. What is more difficult is what the church does with gays/lesbians. Love the sinner/hate the sin is right, but how does that play itself out in real life? Obviously IMO, Christian churches should not ordain practicing homosexuals and should not legitimize gay marriage.

    If we really believe that the church is a hospital for sinners then we should want homosexuals (as well as thieves, adulterers, liers, etc.) in the church. Allow me to toss out a couple of questions. What about gays/lesbians who attend churches? In practice if a gay couple were to attend one of our good “PresbyMethoBaptist” churches how would/should they be received?

  9. Mike Sears said

    Yes, I agree with you completely Mark. My point is that we (and that includes me), Phariseeical (is that even a word?), self righteous Christians do not humble ourselves before the only One who can change us and live out the command of Romans 12:1-2, by loving sinners the way Christ did, we are just a clanging gong! 1 Corinthians 13. When other sinners can identify with us because we are also described in that list, they might just see that we are in the same predicament they are in, and that we are just another beggar showing where the bread is.

  10. hal said

    This question was, “Can You be Gay and Christian?” I would ask, can a person be a liar, an adulterer, a fornicator, etc., and be a Christian? I believe I would answer yes. All one has to do is attend church every Sunday. Is a Bible believing, fundamental Christian without sin? The answer is obvious and if any of us claim to be without, let us cast the first stone. It seems to me from what I’m reading and what I heard on the radio that the problem in answering this question is that it’s so mixed with a political spin and political viewpoints which so much of our answers are nowadays as Bible-believing Christians.

    With the fear of being stoned, I will say yes a person can be gay and be a Christian just as a Christian can be a liar, adulterer and fornicator and be a Christian, but will conclude with this — it’s nice to picture a perfect Christian world where no one is sinning or that we’re all just struggling and never succumb to sin, but let’s face it – that is far from reality in any age since Christ walked the earth. I believe that the Holy Spirit is truly the hound of heaven and what God begins in us, He will bring to completion. The real answer is will a Christian stay “gay”, a liar or adulterer and fornicator if they want to truly be open to the Lordship of Jesus Christ? NO! The Holy Spirit is well equipped to bring all of us to true repentance and no matter how we pound and pound about this subject – He alone is able to finish in all of us what He started.

  11. Hal,
    HUGE difference between momentary failure and lifestyle. HUGE difference between struggling to win a fight and laying down with the enemy in a truce.

    You BE a christian and DO those things. Will they happen from time to time? It has to me, but the major difference is how long you do it and is there remorse and repentance and shunning the avenue of temptation that led to the sin in the first place? Attitude and disposition is everything.

    Mike, I hear you man.

    mark jr.

  12. LB said

    WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAYS YOU CAN BE GAY AND BE A CHRISTIAN

  13. Mike Sears said

    No where, but where in the Bible does it say you can be a sinner and be a Christian? Romans 3:23

  14. steve said

    Reading these comments has me angry. None of us is without sin, whether it be momentary failure or a daily life. Sexual orientation is not being mentioned here. The object of one’s affection is not chosen. Gay people must live a lie if they “convert” to a heterosexual lifestyle. Who would want to know they married a gay person? That is the problem. It is easy to tell others to “change” but what would their spouse do if they found out? Even if the “converted gay” never cheated they would be seen as gay…just as people see those who choose to live a lie and deny their orientation and live celibate lives are still “known” to be gay. How would you choose to live if you were gay? How would you live if YOU had to change to a same sex orientation to be approved by God? You couldn’t! I can hear the cries now…”But HETEROSEXUALITY is NOT a sin,so there!”

  15. John said

    Steve, that was well put.I agree, for what it’s worth.
    There are a large number of homosexuals within the pagan community because these people are sick and tired of tolerating all the bigotry.Of being treated like they’re suffering from some mental illness by the more mainstream religions.Some are just bisexual and for some men and women it is a choice, but for many, there is no choice in the matter at all.They discovered that they were homosexual when they came of age, just as others discover that they are heterosexual when they come of age.
    But this will not matter to the majority of the people here.

  16. Mike Sears said

    Is it a sin to have certain sinful desires? No. I am prone towards beautiful blonde women. Is that a sin? No. It is when I begin to carry out those desires, even if it’s just in my own mind, then it becomes a sin. Some may say, wait a minute, who am I hurting if I just fantasize? I am not affecting anyone else! I am not harming anyone. Jesus answers that in His sermon on the mount. Just looking at another (man/woman, whatever) with lustful thoughts is a sin.

    There are also many (too many) people who have a tendency towards young children. Could they not use your same argument?

    I am in full agreement that people are born with certain innate tendencies. Call it genetic if you’d like. I call it for what it is, a sin nature that has been carried down through the many generations. I have another tendency towards slothfullness, I don’t struggle with greed or covetous as much as I do idleness. Just because that I have more of a tendency towards this sin does not give me an excuse (or license) to carry it out. Do I still fight the urge on a daily basis, sure I do. I probably will the rest of my life. Thankfully, as a child of God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, I have the forgiveness as well as the Holy Spirit’s power to help me to resist these temptations. Jesus not only forgives but delivers us from evil. I lived until the age of 37 (8 years ago) apart from Christ, carrying out most of my sinful desires without much regard to anyone else especially God. Once I came to know and trust Him through His precious Son, He gave me a new heart and I now have the desire and the FREEDOM to live for Him. May it also be so with you!!

  17. Mike Sears said

    Steve
    Do you know anything about NAMBLA? “North American Man/Boy Love Association” I would venture to say that they share your same reasoning. They have been lobbying to reduce the legal age of consensual sex to 12 years old because of their tendencies and desires. Do this, replace your references to “GAY” in your paragraph above with “pedophile”, it works for them too doesn’t it?

    Please don’t think I am judging anyone that is gay is as bad as a “pedophile”, I am just pointing out that they can use the same line of reasoning. The bottom line is that we all share in the same condition, Sin Nature. We can either justify it for ourselves, or trust Christ to forgive us and justify us before a perfect and holy God and give us the power and freedom to live for Him.

  18. Mike Sears said

    It’s all about choices. Are we motivated by love? What kind of love? Whose love? What is love?

    Love is defined by God who is love, and through love, He decided to create man in His image so that they could have a perfect LOVE relationship together.

    In order to manifest TRUE love, He had to give man the free will to choose TO love Him or NOT to love Him.

    BUT

    Man chose to love himself instead of God. Wanting to be his own God, determining what is right and wrong for himself.

    BUT

    God set out to prove His love and devotion to man by promising to deliver a Savior. You see God is perfect, holy, and just, and he requires the same of those He created, so first He, out of love, gave us a set of moral laws to live by.

    BUT

    We proved that we are unable to live by these laws to His standards, PERFECTION.

    BUT

    He did give us a Savior just as He promised. His own Son. “But God demonstrates His love for us in this, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” “Greater Love has no one than this, that He lay down His life for His friends.

    You see God ALWAYS makes the first move in proving His love for us. That is why Jesus told us, “”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

    That is LOVE!!

  19. Brad said

    God created us. B/c of Adam’s original sin, we all have a sin nature from birth. Doesn’t mean we are created sinful, but rather with the propensity and ability to sin.

    Did God create a liar, or somebody with the propensity and ability to lie? Did He create a murderer, or somebody with the propensity and ability to murder? Did He then create a homosexual, or somebody with the propensity and ability to be homosexual? There is a HUGE difference between the 2.

  20. Jeff said

    Can a person be a Cristian and actively continue in any sin? We know that none of us is perfect (or ever will be in this life), but do we really take sin as seriously as the New Testament does? Do we really base our arguments on Scripture or on our experience? Consider a few verses:

    1 John 3:4-11
    Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. [5] You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. [6] No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. [7] Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. [8] Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. [9] No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. [10] By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

    What is the message of this section? True Christians “practice righteousness.” What does this mean? True Christians pracice God’s commands from a joyful, thankful heart – not to earn salvation, but because they have received it. God’s Spirit lives in the Christian and works in him to do what pleases the Lord (Phil. 2:13). And we can also see from this passage that the one who does not practice righteousness is not of God. The one who practices lawlessness is not a Christian. Notice Christ’s own words:

    Matthew 7:21-23
    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22] On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ [23] And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

    This is a terrifying section of Scipture, but we must take it seriously. Many peole will come to the judgment thinking that they are right with God. They will point to many “good” things that they have done only to be rejected by Christ because they are “workers of lawlessness.”

    If we practice sin (lawlessness), we are not true Christians. Homosexuality is certainly lawless behavior. In many places in Scripture God condemns this practice.

    1 Cor. 6:9
    Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,…

    Here in this verse we see unrighteousness equated with homosexuality (among other sins). Might a person who struggles with homosexuality be a Christian? Yes, but he will hate this sin and fight against it, not continually give in to it and excuse it (parading for rights, etc.). And his life will be growingly characterized by a practice of righteousness as he is transformed into the image of Christ by the Spirit, through the Word.

    Brothers and sisters, we must derive our opinions from Scripture if we are to be faithful to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

  21. Mike Sears said

    Amen Jeff

  22. steve said

    Guys, I have been there, done that. All of the above has been through my mind. It doesn’t change anything. It is not right to compare homosexuality with pedophilia etc. Apparantly you guys read right over the orientation part. It did not apply to you in your reasoning because you do not have to change your orientation…just as I ended my first response with. I do understand that the Bible says it is sin…read it many times. It says that those who continue in that sin will have no part in the kingdom. Not trying to justify it. If we all were without sin we would be Jesus. I see pride, arrogance, hatred…all in the name of love in a lot of what the responses say.

  23. Jeff said

    Steve,

    Speaking for myself, I am surely not trying to be hateful, proud or arrogant; I am simply putting forward the clear teaching of the Scriptures. This is the most loving thing that I can do – to clearly show what God teaches and requires so that others may turn to Him and be saved. I would not be loving if I ignored the clear teaching of God’s Word so that I might not offend anyone. And if I am clearly proclaiming the truth of God’s Word, your problem is not with me but with God.

    “Orientation,” a man made category, will be no excuse on the day of judgment. God commands all men everywhere to repent of their sin and trust in His Son (Acts 17:30, 31). If man fails to repent, he has no excuse and bears the responsibility for his own sin. We are all born, because of sin, with certain propensities; but in Christ we are given everything we need to overcome them and live for Christ.

    I don’t see how anyone could differentiate between sins like homosexuality and pedophilia. They are both sins, and thus if we practice them we are not true Christians. This is clear from what I quoted above. Those who practice sin are not indwelt by the Spirit of God. The child molester could just as easily say that this is his “orientation.”

    It is not a “lie” (referring to post #14) for someone (including a homosexual) to repent. If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, old things have passed away, behold all things have become new (2 Cor. 5:17. And look at 1 Cor. 6:11:

    1 Cor. 6:11
    And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    This comes after the list of sins in verse 10, which includes homosexuality. Notice that, speaking of those who had repented, it says that “such were some of you.” They were no longer characterized by these sins. They were new creatures in Christ. God can deliver from homosexuality. You said that it is not right to equate homosexuality with other sins, but God does this very thing (see 1 Cor 6:10, 1 Tim 1:10).

    The good news is that God has demonstrated His love by sacrificing His Son so that we can be saved. Christ can deliver you from any sin! He did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him (John 3:17). God is loving to sacrifice His Son on our behalf, and He is also loving to point out our sin and call us to repentance. I am simply trying to be loving the way He is loving. He has commanded us to be faithful witnesses to the truth, and He has promised to use that witness to bring His children to Himself.

    I pray that you won’t simply cast these things behind you, while seeking to justify sin, but that you will honestly consider these things and ask God to show you the truth. He is faithful.

    Carefully read my previous post, along with this one, and if I am not being faithful to the Scriptures please show me where I am wrong. But, if I am faithfully proclaiming God’s Word, turn to Him through His Son Jesus Christ and be saved!

  24. steve said

    OK, maybe you are right in saying God lists it as a sin along with others, but I have heard so many arguments pro-gay and anti-gay I could quote them to you from both sides! Gay Christians believe in their heart they are not sinning…that they discovered their sexual orientation, they did not CHOOSE it. It is not a choice. It is a reality in their lives…just as your heterosexual orientation is a reality in yours. God can do anything…he could make me grow hair again…but He chooses not to. Likewise, God chooses to not change my orientation and that of many Gay Christians. Just to show you I know the arguments I will show the responses I have heard to these comments. It does not matter how sincere someone is that they are not sinning…they can be sincerely wrong! Someone may discover xyz about themselves sexually and did not choose it, but God calls it sin, and calls the sinner to repent and sin no more. God could make your hair grow again, but baldness is not a sin, homosexuality IS! God does not promise me he will make you heterosexual, He only tells you to be obedient to His word. See, I know all these things…but I have tried for twenty years…really my whole life to change, to walk in obedience, only to have a hot-looking guy cross my path and prove to me yet again that no matter how hard I try to deny it…no matter how pure and sexually inactive I am….that I am still gay. Which is the lie? To be obedient to God’s word and God not change me or to live as the homosexual I am?

  25. Stu Epperson encouraged me to weigh in on this blog as I had opportunity, since it was the interview we had on this topic that triggered these posts.

    I very much appreciate the comments in this blog, and it’s so important that these issues are being discussed. Because of time constraints, I’ll just make two comments:

    1) Jeff is absolutely right (in post #21) in stating that, “If we practice sin (lawlessness), we are not true Christians.” Jesus does not save us IN our sins but FROM our sins (see Matt 1:21), and as it is often said, the only proof of the new birth is the new life. We are NOT saved by good works, but good works are a proof of our faith, and we judge a tree by the fruit it bears. Really, this is the the consistent testimony of the NT. This modern-day, “Come to Jesus but never change” gospel is wreaking havoc on our country today, and it is hardly a real gospel at all. Yes, there is mercy for us if we fall short, acknowledge our sin, and by God’s grace turn back, but there is no excuse for anyone who thinks that they can follow Jesus and willfully practice sin at the same time. (Prov 28:13 remains true.)

    2) Steve (especially post #24) needs to be heard by those in Jeff’s camp (and that includes me), reminding us of the terrible struggles that many homosexual people experience. While I personally know former homosexuals (yes, their “orientation” was changed by the Lord), I know others whose story resembles Steve’s: They prayed and cried out for God to change them, but without success.

    But here is where Steve is missing the point (and it was one of the first things I stated in the interview with Stu): The Lord did not promise to change and completely eradicate our sinful nature in this world. Rather, He promised to give us a way of escape, to give us power to resist temptation, and to forgive and cleanse us if we fall short and return to Him in repentance and faith. That is to say, the issue for someone with unwanted same-sex attractions is to pursue holiness, not to pursue heterosexuality, even if that means a life of celibacy (which many heterosexuals also experience for much of their lives too). I do not say this lightly, but it remains true nonetheless.

    So, can someone be gay and Christian? If by that you mean, “Can you be a self-affirming gay person and engage in homosexual practice while at the same time following Jesus?”, the clear biblical answer is absolutely No. But if by that you mean, “Can you be a devoted follower of Jesus while having unwanted same-sex attractions, recognizing that homosexuality is contrary to God’s order and renouncing homosexual practice as sin, resisting temptation and refusing to give way to homosexual desires?”, then the answer is Yes.

    It’s a terrible shame that the Church is so insensitive to these issues, failing to provide help and fellowship to people who are in real need and serious internal conflict, and I for one am committed to pray for and stand with Christians fighting unwanted same-sex attractions. But under no circumstances will I countenance the idea that one can be a true follower of Jesus and engage in homosexual practice, be it monogamous or otherwise. To do so would be to deny God and His Word.

    I encourage those who are interested in pursuing this further to check out the resources listed at http://www.coalitionofconscience.org/recommended.shtm; for my statement to the homosexual community of Charlotte, see http://www.coalitionofconscience.org/statements/homosexualCommunity.shtm; for further developments in Charlotte, see http://www.coalitionofconscience.org/articles/UpdateCharlotte2-25.shtm.

    May God’s grace and truth prevail in each of your lives!

  26. M said

    Wow Steve
    That is about as honest of a response as I have read in a while. And I must say that I can relate with you. I am married to a wonderful woman, but have been celibate, (not by my choice) for nearly four years now. I will not share any details about that other than I understand where you are coming from about seeing a “hot” (guy in your case, woman in mine). I have had many opportunities to satisfy my “orientation” desires with attractive women who have shown an interest in me. I have fallen to the temptation of fantasizing sex with other women and that still happens.

    I grew up believing I was a Christian and held the belief that if I did more good than bad throughout my life that God would accept me because Jesus died for our sins. It wasn’t until I went through some severe hardships and was drowning in sorrow over several tragedies, that God began to work on my heart. 7 years ago I learned that there is NOTHING I could ever do to earn God’s favor. That my heart was dark and sinful and I was lost without a relationship with Him. I began to gain an understanding of the magnitude of Christ’s death for me. Upon trusting in Him fully as my Lord and Savior, I learned that His death not only justified me before a holy God, but it also continually sanctifies (allows me to grow) by His Holy Spirit living within me.

    The reason I shared this is because, 8-10 years ago, while believing I was a Christian, I would have easily justified in my own heart and mind that my wife should not deny me of my sexual desires for her. Hey it’s even commanded in the Bible that she not deny me (although I did not have a clue about that at the time). I would have said to myself, and our current culture supports this, I have grounds for divorce, and I would have quickly sought to fulfill my orientation desires. Actually I did this on several occasions during my first 14 years of marriage. Yet this is something that I can not possibly do now. Even though I am a man and have these desires, regardless of whether my wife honors me or not, I am commanded to deny these desires and treat her as perfect and without blame. Ephesians 5:25. Do I do this well? No way. Am I strong enough to do it? No. But I have learned that Christ’s power is made perfect in weakness. I have a desire to honor Him and the Holy Spirit empowers me to be reminded of the perfect Jesus who stood against the ultimate temptations of satan, the suffering savior who endured death on a cross so that I could endure these temptations. I am also reminded that Christ lives in me, and if I were to ever defile myself by lying with another, that I do so with Christ in me. The thought of doing something like that now makes me nauseas.

    So really our temptations are really very similar. The Bible says “No temptation has seized you except what is common to man.” I would highly recommend a book that is life changing in regards to understanding the Gospel in such a way that it empowers us to live our lives for Christ in FREEDOM. The Gospel Mystery of Sanctification” by Walter Marshall. It was written back in the 1700’s but has been rewritten in today’s English by Bruce McRae. I pray that you will grow in the grace and knowledge of our precious savior and that He will give you that new heart and a fresh desire to live for Him. God bless you Steve. M

  27. M said

    Steve
    One more thing. You said “To be obedient to God’s word and God not change me…” There is something that is critically about how the Gospel works. God does not change us when we are obedient, or because we are obedient. That is a performance based religion. Christianity is actually NOT a religion at all. Although many think it is. The Gospel is a realization that we are UNABLE to be obedient to God standards. Many think that they should live right so that God will accept them, or bless them, (while sometimes He does reward us for obedience but that is also often a natural consequence of “living right”, God designed the world that way, however, because the world is broken it doesn’t always work out that way). BUT, Jesus says, Come to me all who are weary and heavy laden, and I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners. We don’t clean ourselves up so that God will accept us or bless us, we just come, just as we are, and it is God who cleans us up. First we realize our total depravity, and when we trust what Christ did for us, something that we are unable to do for ourselves, suffer and die on the cross, we then realize that it is Christ’s work on the cross ALONE that makes us perfect in the sight of God. That is something that totally blows me away. That because of Christ alone, I am viewed as perfect. Martin Luther said we are like snow covered dung. That describes me perfectly! So I have to ask you. Do you realize that putting your complete trust in Christ to have paid the price for your sin, makes you (already) perfect in the sight of God? When God looks at a believer, He sees His Son who took your place!! When we truly realize this, we are so blown away and fall totally in love with God and the Holy Spirit does an amazing transformation in our heart and begins to really change us. I am living proof of that. May your weekend be filled with the wonder of the gospel!! M

  28. Anonymous said

    How a ‘Gay Rights’ Leader Became Straight

    By Michael Glatze (Former gay rights leader and publisher of a popular homosexual magazine)

    Homosexuality came easy to me, because I was already weak. My mom died when I was 19. My father had died when I was 13. At an early age, I was already confused about who I was and how I felt about others.
    My confusion about “desire” and the fact that I noticed I was “attracted” to guys made me put myself into the “gay” category at age 14. At age 20, I came out as gay to everybody else around me. At age 22, I became an editor of the first magazine aimed at a young, gay male audience. It bordered on pornography in its photographic content, but I figured I could use it as a platform to bigger and better things.

    Sure enough, Young Gay America came around. It was meant to fill the void that the other magazine I’d worked for had created – namely, anything not-so-pornographic, aimed at the population of young, gay Americans. Young Gay America took off. Gay people responded happily to Young Gay America. It received awards, recognition, respectability and great honors, including the National Role Model Award from major gay organization Equality Forum – which was given to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien a year later – and a whole host of appearances in the media, from PBS to the Seattle Times, from MSNBC to the cover story in Time magazine. I produced, with the help of PBS-affiliates and Equality Forum, the first major documentary film to tackle gay teen suicide, “Jim In Bold,” which toured the world and received numerous “best in festival” awards. Young Gay America created a photo exhibit, full of photographs and stories of gay youth all across the North American continent, which toured Europe, Canada and parts of the United States. Young Gay America launched YGA Magazine in 2004, to pretend to provide a “virtuous counterpart” to the other newsstand media aimed at gay youth. I say “pretend” because the truth was, YGA was as damaging as anything else out there, just not overtly pornographic, so it was more “respected.”

    It took me almost 16 years to discover that homosexuality itself is not exactly “virtuous.” It was difficult for me to clarify my feelings on the issue, given that my life was so caught up in it. Homosexuality, delivered to young minds, is by its very nature pornographic. It destroys impressionable minds and confuses their developing sexuality; I did not realize this, however, until I was 30 years old.

    YGA Magazine sold out of its first issue in several North American cities. There was extreme support, by all sides, for YGA Magazine; schools, parent groups, libraries, governmental associations, everyone seemed to want it. It tapped right into the zeitgeist of “accepting and promoting” homosexuality, and I was considered a leader. I was asked to speak on the prestigious JFK Jr. Forum at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government in 2005. It was, after viewing my words on a videotape of that “performance,” that I began to seriously doubt what I was doing with my life and influence.

    Knowing no one who I could approach with my questions and my doubts, I turned to God; I’d developed a growing relationship with God, thanks to a debilitating bout with intestinal cramps caused by the upset stomach-inducing behaviors I’d been engaged in. Soon, I began to understand things I’d never known could possibly be real, such as the fact that I was leading a movement of sin and corruption – which is not to sound as though my discovery was based on dogma, because decidedly it was not. I came to the conclusions on my own. It became clear to me, as I really thought about it – and really prayed about it – that homosexuality prevents us from finding our true self within. We cannot see the truth when we’re blinded by homosexuality. We believe, under the influence of homosexuality, that lust is not just acceptable, but a virtue. But there is no homosexual “desire” that is apart from lust. In denial of this fact, I’d fought to erase such truth at all costs, and participated in the various popular ways of taking responsibility out of human hands for challenging the temptations of lust and other behaviors. I was sure – thanks to culture and world leaders – that I was doing the right thing.

    Driven to look for truth, because nothing felt right, I looked within. Jesus Christ repeatedly advises us not to trust anybody other than Him. I did what He said, knowing that the Kingdom of God does reside in the heart and mind of every man. What I discovered – what I learned – about homosexuality was amazing. How I’d first “discovered” homosexual desires back in high school was by noticing that I looked at other guys. How I healed, when it became decidedly clear that I should – or risk hurting more people – is that I paid attention to myself. Every time I was tempted to lust, I noticed it, caught it, dealt with it. I called it what it was, and then just let it disappear on its own. A huge and vital difference exists between superficial admiration – of yourself, or others – and integral admiration. In loving ourselves fully, we no longer need anything from the “outside” world of lustful desire, recognition from others, or physical satisfaction. Our drives become intrinsic to our very essence, unbridled by neurotic distractions. Homosexuality allows us to avoid digging deeper, through superficiality and lust-inspired attractions – at least, as long as it remains “accepted” by law. As a result, countless miss out on their truest self, their God-given Christ-self.

    Homosexuality, for me, began at age 13 and ended – once I “cut myself off” from outside influences and intensely focused on inner truth – when I discovered the depths of my God-given self at age 30. God is regarded as an enemy by many in the grip of homosexuality or other lustful behavior, because He reminds them of who and what they truly are meant to be. People caught in the act would rather stay “blissfully ignorant” by silencing truth and those who speak it, through antagonism, condemnation and calling them words like “racist,” “insensitive,” “evil” and “discriminatory.” Healing from the wounds caused by homosexuality is not easy – there’s little obvious support. What support remains is shamed, ridiculed, silenced by rhetoric or made illegal by twisting of laws. I had to sift through my own embarrassment and the disapproving “voices” of all I’d ever known to find it. Part of the homosexual agenda is getting people to stop considering that conversion is even a viable question to be asked, let alone whether or not it works.

    In my experience, “coming out” from under the influence of the homosexual mindset was the most liberating, beautiful and astonishing thing I’ve ever experienced in my entire life. Lust takes us out of our bodies, “attaching” our psyche onto someone else’s physical form. That’s why homosexual sex – and all other lust-based sex – is never satisfactory: It’s a neurotic process rather than a natural, normal one. Normal is normal – and has been called normal for a reason. Abnormal means “that which hurts us, hurts normal.” Homosexuality takes us out of our normal state, of being perfectly united in all things, and divides us, causing us to forever pine for an outside physical object that we can never possess. Homosexual people – like all people – yearn for the mythical true love, which does actually exist. The problem with homosexuality is that true love only comes when we have nothing preventing us from letting it shine forth from within. We cannot fully be ourselves when our minds are trapped in a cycle and group-mentality of sanctioned, protected and celebrated lust.

    God came to me when I was confused and lost, alone, afraid and upset. He told me – through prayer – that I had nothing at all to be afraid of, and that I was home; I just needed to do a little house cleaning in my mind. I believe that all people, intrinsically, know the truth. I believe that is why Christianity scares people so much. It reminds them of their conscience, which we all possess. Conscience tells us right from wrong and is a guide by which we can grow and become stronger and freer human beings. Healing from sin and ignorance is always possible, but the first thing anyone must do is get out of the mentalities that divide and conquer humanity. Sexual truth can be found, provided we’re all willing and driven to accept that our culture sanctions behaviors that harm life. Guilt should be no reason to avoid the difficult questions. Homosexuality took almost 16 years of my life and compromised them with one lie or another, perpetuated through national media targeted at children .

    In European countries, homosexuality is considered so normal that grade-school children are being provided “gay” children’s books as required reading in public schools. Poland, a country all-too familiar with the destruction of its people by outside influences, is bravely attempting to stop the European Union from indoctrinating its children with homosexual propaganda. In response, the European Union has called the prime minister of Poland “repulsive.” I was repulsive for quite some time; I am still dealing with all of my guilt. As a leader in the “gay rights” movement, I was given the opportunity to address the public many times. If I could take back some of the things I said, I would. Now I know that homosexuality is lust and pornography wrapped into one. I’ll never let anybody try to convince me otherwise, no matter how slick their tongues or how sad their story. I have seen it. I know the truth. God gave us truth for a reason. It exists so we could be ourselves. It exists so we could share that perfect self with the world, to make the perfect world. These are not fanciful schemes or strange ideals – these are the Truth. Healing from the sins of the world will not happen in an instant; but, it will happen – if we don’t pridefully block it. God wins in the end, in case you didn’t know.

  29. Jeff said

    Dr. Brown,

    Thanks for your input in post #25. It was very helpful.

  30. Anonymous said

    Michael Glatze is a Mormon. Isn’t being gay and a Mormon a double whammy?

  31. steve said

    I appreciate the comments meant to help me, a lot to consider. I just wish my temptation was toward women, at least it would be “normal”. I know no lust is acceptable, but it would at least direct me to the correct object of affection. Lots of people I have spoken with about this site have said that the very reason they do not have contact with their families is that their families said being gay is a sin and for them to repent or basically get the h@#$ out of the families lives until they repented and changed. That is done with scriptural support too..not to fellowship with sinners or unblievers. Did God intend for this to be the case with unrepentant homosexuals?

  32. Brad said

    No, God wants us to love those who are struggling with their sins (which includes all Christians, as well). However, He does not condone, nor does He ask us to condone, knowingfully sinful behavior.

  33. Mike Sears said

    Steve
    It is so obvious that God is working on your heart. Your openness and transparency is very genuine. It is really very sad that families would give their own children the boot, especially as a 1st step. Now there is a big difference between being welcome in a church and being treated/considered as a member of the Body of Christ. All should be welcome in every church period. Again Jesus said, I have NOT come to call the righteous, but sinners, so I think we all qualify. However, there is Biblical mandate to discipline the unrepentant sinner who calls himself a brother(that includes all sin) which can ultimately lead to excommunication. However, the context and intent is always geared toward reconciliation. Ted Haggard is a good example of that. As long as he has a desire to turn and repent, his church leadership should continue to reach out to him. However, any sinner who continues in willful sin, most of which will deny that they are sinning all together, will ultimately be excommunicated from the church body UNTIL they turn and repent. The church body should always be ready and willing to receive the repentant sinner back. Now does this mean they are NOT welcome in the church doors? Absolutely not, unless there is an inherent risk to the congregants or the individual represents himself as a member/believer.

    Now when it comes to associating with others, here are Paul’s instructions from 1 Corinthians 5:9-11.

    I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler.

    Keep on asking and seeking Steve. Remember, upon putting your trust in Christ to have paid for your sins, you immediately are given the perfect robes of righteousness. You are perfect in God’s sight. Hard to believe isn’t it? Once you do believe it, it is then He begins to mold you into His image. Blessings!!

  34. John said

    Steve, you’ll never be truely happy being anything other than what you truely are.
    Normality is a relative ideal based on the judgement of a majority at a given time and situation.Homosexuality is “normal” in nature, and I could provide you with a large list of animal life that enjoys this behavior.
    So why don’t you stop tortureing you’rself?If worst comes to worst, you can always join another religion.There ARE other deities, you know.If you want to tough it out with Christianity though, then you already know what you need to do.Do it.And live you’re life as best as you are able,while ever looking foward to you’re time in Heaven after death.

  35. Mike Sears said

    Normal? What is normal? It makes me think about families. Is there NOT a disfunctional family out there? I’ve never seen one!!

    Steve, I hope you can find some solid Christian brothers and sisters who are willing to walk along with you in your struggles. If you happen to live in the Triad area, I would be willing to do that with you. Mike

  36. Mike Sears said

    Be sure to listen to today’s show. Same subject.

  37. steve said

    I did not hear the show today, but I thought it was a different topic..forget what it is/was. Just so you guys know, I have been saved since I was 14 officially but believed since a small child. There are so many confusing topics in the Bible I am about ready to say all I believed is untrue. Concubines were not condemned by God, but homosexuality is? The woman caught in adultery was condemned, why not the man? Double standard? It takes two to tango! Jesus told us to hate our brothers and sisters for His name’s sake but told us if we hated our brother we were murderers in our hearts. He told the thief “today you will be with me in paradise” but He decended into Hell! He died on Friday but rose on Sunday…not the third day but the second. So many contradictions it is hard to know WHAT to believe. Jehova’s Witnesses say Jehova created Jesus, that He and God are not equal and they too can use scripture to justify their belief. Pick and choose to make a point. What makes one right and another wrong? Interpretation? I know I am off the subject here and do not want to start a debate within a debate..just trying to understand how to understand the Bible.

  38. John said

    First, choose a version.The King James version is awful popular.Next, wait for Brad and Mike Sears.They love this sort of thing.

  39. ADB said

    Steve,
    I appreciate your struggles to understand the Bible. You may have been saved at that young age, but unfortunately no one ever helped you grow in the faith. (That happens all to much these days.) Your questions are good ones, and they (as well as any number of others you have) can be answered through good careful study. This isn’t the format for addressing the particular issues you raised, but I would like to mention some helpful things. Use the simpler parts of scripture to help interpret the more obscure parts, never the other way around. Always consider the context for passages, as well as taking into consideration the type of literature- letter, poem, history, gospel, etc. Sometimes just finding out who the intended audience was can be very helpful. Lastly, with regard to Jehovah’s Witnesses, they use a very poor translation that is essentially doctored to fit their particular religious beliefs, but which in some very important areas is not true to the original Greek NT. The very fact that you admit that there is much you don’t understand is a good sign that you are ready to learn.

    A curmudgeonly pastor.

  40. Anonymous said

    Steve
    I know I keep pounding the same message but again, I think there is an inherent misunderstanding of the Gospel and how God works in our hearts when we have truly submitted and trusted in Him. Please take 30 minutes and listen to a powerful sermon by John Fonville. It is the one dated 8/12/07 at this web address; http://www.pvpc.com/past/index.php/welcome/index/5

    BTW, the show last night was not what I thought it was. They must have played the wrong ad for the show yesterday morning.

    Regarding your comments about your perceived contradictions in the Bible, yes, I could address each one of them if you’d like. ADB is right regarding interpretation and context. I also believed (until age 37) there were many contradictions in the Bible. Many people believe that Christians have to “check their brains at the door of the church and just have faith”. That is so untrue. Consider the many scholars who came to faith later in life by an honest investigation of the claims of the Bible and Christianity, many with the intent of proving it wrong. For example, Lee Strobel, an investigative journalist for the Chicago Tribune, CS Lewis, and so many others. http://www.leestrobel.com is also a great resource for learning more. I say this to encourage you to really seek the truth by investigating and studying the perceived contradictions to their root.

  41. Mike Sears said

    My name was cleared for some reason. Last post was me.

  42. Anonymous said

    Stay away from Strobel or any of the new apologists. Read the Bible and take some classes at a local college.

  43. ADB said

    I haven’t read Lee Strobel, but you can’t do better than C.S. Lewis and Mere Christianity. You really don’t need to take college classes. Just read it, study some, and believe. Sure there are hard parts, parts that seem to contradict. The more you read the more you will understand and the more you will realize that you don’t have to understand everything.

  44. John said

    Lee Strobel’s interviews are childish.I have some of his books[they were presents].This guy was an investigative journalist?
    Good luck Steve.I hope you get what you need and want.

  45. Ted said

    Anonymous – why should we stay away from Strobel and who are the new apologists? Tell us, please.

  46. Anonymous said

    Ted, sure, because I disagree with the stuff I read from Strobel. I refer to the new apologists as anyone that Macfarland recommends on the radio. I don’t mean to imply that there are new vs. old apologists, or that if there are that they disagree in some ways.

    I think that the purpose of the fundamentalist apologetics I am familiar with is to make a boogeyman of the scientific method. But that’s because I am not fundamentalist. Furthermore, I think one is much more likely to have an unbiased understanding of where the Christian faith comes from by taking college classes instead of reading fundamentalist literature. Or, at least by doing both.

    Now, I am no scholar. What I know about Strobel and his ilk comes from casual reading and intercourse with his followers such as Truth Talk Live and this blog (and others).

    What do you think, Ted?

  47. Ted said

    What do I think? I think Luke 9:50. Why do you judge people like Stobel and MacFarland? They’re reaching tons of people every day, week, month and year with the Gospel. How many people have you spoken to today about Jesus Christ?

  48. Anonymous said

    “They’re reaching tons of people every day, week, month and year with the Gospel.” (Ted)

    I say they are misleading those people.

  49. Jeff said

    Anonymous (#48) (You guys should really pick a name, even if it is not your own. At least that way we could better identify who we are talking to.) 🙂

    How are they misleading people? What have they said that is wrong? Surely they are not wrong on everything! Give specifics on how they are misleading people or you are again making bald assertions that are not backed up with any evidence.

    And I thought Ted’s question was a good one, “How many people have you spoken to today about Jesus Christ?”

  50. Mike Sears said

    Anonymous
    For someone who claims to behold the scientific method, you certainly seem to ignore it as you make your claims. Also, do you not realize that ALL claims are biased? Or are you one of those who think the only “biased” news source out there is Fox News? It is quite naive to think that college professor’s teach in an unbiased way. Everyone has a worldview that affects what they do and say as well as why they do and say the things they do. Now what is really important is what you do with the information you receive. Let me ask you. What do you do with Jesus?

  51. Anonymous said

    Jeff, do we have faith because the Bible is scientifically verifiable? I say no we don’t. Macfarland says we should. I say again he is wrong and is misleading people.

    I haven’t spoken with anyone besides you about Jesus, but at least I haven’t mislead anyone.

    Mike, what are you going on about? I didn’t say any of that stuff.

  52. Mike Sears said

    Are you not the author of post #46? “Furthermore, I think one is much more likely to have an unbiased understanding of where the Christian faith comes from by taking college classes instead of reading fundamentalist literature.”

    “Now, I am no scholar. What I know about Strobel and his ilk comes from casual reading and intercourse with his followers such as Truth Talk Live and this blog (and others).”

  53. Anonymous said

    “For someone who claims to behold the scientific method, you certainly seem to ignore it as you make your claims.” (Mike Sears)

    What claims were those? I often say parts of the Bible are allegorical (Genembridges is the scholar here) and not meant to read as historical events. Is that what you refer to?

    “Also, do you not realize that ALL claims are biased? Or are you one of those who think the only “biased” news source out there is Fox News?” (Mike Sears)

    When did I say this?

    “It is quite naive to think that college professor’s teach in an unbiased way.” (Mike Sears)

    I didn’t say that they do.

    “Everyone has a worldview that affects what they do and say as well as why they do and say the things they do.” (Mike Sears)

    If you say so. I certainly never said this.

    “Now what is really important is what you do with the information you receive. Let me ask you. What do you do with Jesus?” (Mike Sears)

    I guess this is where I am supposed to buy Macfarland’s and Strobel’s books? Are you their press agent?

  54. Jeff said

    Anonymous,

    “Jeff, do we have faith because the Bible is scientifically verifiable? I say no we don’t. Macfarland says we should. I say again he is wrong and is misleading people.”

    I wonder if he would actually say that we have faith “because” the Bible is scientifically verifiable? Maybe we should move this discussion to yesterday’s show thread and see what Alex says to this.

    Personally, I say no, we do not have faith because the Bible is scientifically verifiable. Man is not the judge, God is. We have faith because God has granted us faith and repentance, not because we, on our own, decided to believe. (Oops, my Calvinism slipped out.) 🙂 God’s Spirit convinces us that the Bible is the Word of God. God gives life to the spirtually dead, causing them to repent and believe the gospel (Eph. 2:1-10). This does not mean that there are not good historical and scientific proofs, but it does mean that we can never argue (via human reasoning) someone into the kingdom of God. God uses His Word to bring His people to Himself. We are to be faithful to share the gospel, but He is the one who actually brings about the conversion of the soul. We should always be prepared to give an answer for our faith (1 Peter 3:15), primarlily from Scripture, though evidences are not out of bounds, but we must never rely upon the evidences to bring about faith. That is God’s job and He uses the instrument of His Word to accomplish this (Isaiah 55:10, 11; 1 Peter 1:22-25).

    That’s probably more than you were asking for. And we are way off topic on this thread!

  55. Anonymous said

    I agree. We are getting off topic. Ciao.

  56. Mike Sears said

    “What claims were those?” That would be the unsubstantiated claims you made in the last few e-mails. Like: “I say they are misleading those people.” and “I think that the purpose of the fundamentalist apologetics I am familiar with is to make a boogeyman of the scientific method.” You were asked to substantiate these claims and no substance provided.

    You also said “I think one is much more likely to have an unbiased understanding of where the Christian faith comes from by taking college classes” Who do you think teaches these classes??

  57. Anonymous said

    Mike, you are just trying to be hard to get along with.

    How’s that for an unsubstantiated claim?

    “That would be the unsubstantiated claims you made in the last few e-mails. Like: “I say they are misleading those people.” and “I think that the purpose of the fundamentalist apologetics I am familiar with is to make a boogeyman of the scientific method.” You were asked to substantiate these claims and no substance provided.” (Mike Sears)

    The apologists are the ones claiming that the Bible is 100% scientifically verifiable. Let them substantiate their claims. They haven’t yet, therefore I say again that they are misleading people.

    “You also said “I think one is much more likely to have an unbiased understanding of where the Christian faith comes from by taking college classes” Who do you think teaches these classes??” (Mike Sears)

    Where did I claim that college professors are unbiased? I said that one is more likely to get an unbiased education in college than in one of Macfarland’s or Strobel’s books.

    I grant you that this is strictly my own personal opinion. I was addressing the questions put forth by Steve in post 37. You offered your opinion, too.

  58. John said

    You’ve been quiet Steve.
    Have you gotten any…….. assistance, of any kind with you’re studies yet?Or are you still indecisive about what you want to do and how you want to do it?Just curious.

  59. Jason said

    This is already a stale issue, but I just wanted to point out whose side this John is on: Satan’s. It’s pretty clear. Isn’t that right, John? You’re clearly not speaking the truth. And you use all the same tactics as Satan from when he deceived Eve in the Garden: seeming friendly, but speaking lies. Is that not the spirit that speaks through you, John?

    Steve, don’t listen to voices like John’s. Christ died to free you from your sin. Read Romans 8. That’s the truth in this matter. And you can see from the rest of this thread that the body of Christ does not move to condemn you.

  60. Jason said

    John is a popular name. I’m specifically referring to the John from posts #15,34, and 44.

  61. John said

    You forgot posts#5,38,and 58,Jason.That’s me too,for I am the ONLY John who replies on this website regularly.Where were you when I was chatting to Amanda the Mormon[grins]?I’ve actually been waiting for this sort of an accusation for some time now.
    My,how you do honor and need your Satan.You are wrong, but it matters not.Believe whatever makes you “happy”.People usually do anyway.You interest me Jason.I wonder,have you read all of the rest of my replies[I’m just about everywhere],or just the ones on this site?Do be a dear and keep in touch[smile].

  62. Steve said

    Well, several months have passed. I do not know if any of you guys will revisit this post. A few posts said I had not grown in my Christian faith. That is so not true! I have grown a lot, done a LOT of reading. Just because I may not have picked a stance on some things doesn’t mean I do not KNOW about the issues. I got a computer at home and have met several guys. No sexual experiences with them. Just cruising the chat rooms and chatting mostly. However, I did notice something. Hot looking, handsome, buff guys showing off ALL their attributes looking for no-strings sexual encounters. Sure, I enjoyed looking at the pics, but it left me empty. I do not want a no-strings experience. I placed an ad for man seeking woman and got a response from a nice Christian lady. We have talked on the phone for hours…which i did not have any trouble with. We meet today in person. Test Time! Will the personal like I have towards her be followed by a SEXUAL desire for her? I do not know! I do know I have enjoyed talking with her more than I have enjoyed any sexual experience I have ever had with a guy. it was real, it meant something. Even a hint of love just in talking. THAT is what I want LOVE. I know I might be able to get that from a guy…but so far I have not. It is different somehow, it is special. Am I straight with no same sex desires? No, but I am seeking and experiencing a Godly Christ-centered relationship…for a change.

  63. Mike S said

    Steve
    That is so awesome brother!! It is obvious that the Holy Spirit is working on you in a major way! A relationship with God that extends out to/from and through other brothers and sisters in Christ is much better than any extra marital sex you can ever have! Keep one thing in mind as your relationships grow in Christ. Love God with all you heart and all your soul and all your mind. Do that and you will desire Him more than anything else. Try not to worry about your sexual desires so much. Take it from someone who has not had any sex in a couple of years. I wish you well on your date!!

  64. F. L. A. said

    If it doesn’t work out, there’s still plenty of other women to experiment with.

  65. steve said

    Thanks guys, my date went wonderfully. We talked for two and a half hours at dinner, thankfully it was not crowded. Neither of us realized we talked that long. She said time flies when you are having fun. I am not trying to change my orientation, but I am discovering what a wonderful thing it is to find a woman to talk with. She was pretty too. This is new territory for me and I do not know what to make of it. Keep me in your prayers.

  66. Mike S said

    Steve, I am thrilled that you had a great time! You said you want LOVE. What is LOVE? Take some time to meditate and consider the ULTIMATE love that God has for us…

    Hebrews 12:2, Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    “JOY set before Him” What is that? What kind of JOY would make Him leave Heaven, the blissful presence of the Father? What did He NOT have, that He had to leave Heaven to get? The God who creates and sustains everything by just the word of His mouth? Who has everything already! What did He not have already that made Him become vulnerable and endure life on this earth, to be rejected and scorned, to be whipped, beaten, spit upon, to lay His life on a cross?? What kind of JOY would make Him subject Himself to the kind of severe suffering that He endured? Have you ever thought about that? What was His Living Hope? What is that JOY that He did not have? … YOU!!!

    1Peter 1:3 In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

    He is our living hope, because we were His living hope!!!

    Isaiah 53:6
    But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him and by his wounds we are healed.

    Hebrews 4:16-18
    Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

    My prayer is that you will gain a deeper understanding of the love that God has for you.

    Ephesians 3:17-19
    And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

    Please stay in touch as I would love to hear how things are going and so I will know how to continue to pray for you.

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