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Islam: A Religion of Peace?

Posted by truthtalklive on August 2, 2007

Or is it merely a political movement masquerading as a religion?

Todays guest host: Allen Hunt www.allenhuntshow.com  

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23 Responses to “Islam: A Religion of Peace?”

  1. Anonymous said

    Just curious: Allen Hunt just mentioned that there is no reference to love in the koran. Does he think it is a gesture of love to deny an islam believer entry into the USA? Are we professing love in having this type of discourse?

  2. Saif Alsafeer said

    Hi allen! Hope all is well, anyway’s to deny muslim immigration into the country is quite a ridiculous idea. It is actually quite amusing:) Considering that your pathetic dream will never be a reality I will make this reply very simple. The word “Islam” means “Peace”. I thought I would let you know that due to your lack of cultural knowledge. I know what your thinking… ” Why all the killing in the name of Allah” right??? Well let me turn the table’s for a moment. Did you know that Timothy Mcvey claimed to be a Christian??? You probably didnt know that either, but it’s ok. I dont mind teaching miss informed people such as your self. So, is Christianity a religion of violence because of Timothy Mkvey??? Let me answer that for you… No!!! Timothy mis represented the true meaning of being a Christian, just as the terrorists are mis representing Islam. I am a muslim allen… Why am I not a terrorist or an unpeaceful man? As a matter of fact my family and I have come to this country as Islams and have done very well for ourselves. We provide to the economy just as much as anyone else does… So why shouldnt other muslim’s be allowed to come and have the same opportuniy? You are obviously very close minded and I pitty you. I can only pray that GOD shines some light on your ill tempered suggestions. So I think I’ve made my point pretty clear, and if you dont like it… maybe you should come try to throw me out of the country:) Oh and by the way I am happily engaged to a wonderful CHRISTIAN girl:) Bye

  3. Kenneth J said

    Why won’t Muslim’s allow Christians and Jews in Mecca Saudi Arabia? And America is not a Christian nation, there are Christians that live in America.

    Anyone wanting to know what the Quran has to say concerning Christians, Jews, and all other nonMuslims – just do a search on the web and it will pull up Quranic verses that say to kill the infidel, to do everything in your power to promote Islam. This is also reinforced in the Hadith.

    One difference between so-called CHristian wars is that they did it inspite of what the Scriptures(Holy BIble) says for Christians to do. Whereas in Islamic jihad, it is commanded in their Quran. Jesus Christ, the Creator of heaven and earth, God in the flesh tells His followers to love their enemies, bless those who persecute you.

    What did Muhammad say to his followers concerning his enemies(Christians and Jews)?

    – Kenneth J., follower of the One true Prophet of God, Jesus Christ who was born of a virgin, died on the cross and rose again to give me victory over sin through His death, burial and resurrection, because He is God the Creator, my Savior and my friend.

  4. Mike Sears said

    Kenneth J makes a great point. One point to Mr. Alsafeer, you may be engaged to a girl who was raised in a Christian family, or THINKS she is a Christian, just as I used to think I was a Christian before receiving Christ as my savior at age 37. She, like a large majority of our population, may THINK they are Christian, but what really happens when you receive Christ, is you fall in love with His Word and you have an intense desire to study it and follow it. (Bearing fruit) His Word clearly commands that a believer should not marry (be yoked with) an unbeliever. She is either an infant Christian, or she has never truly acknowledged her complete inadequacy before a perfect and holy God and realized that there is nothing she can do to earn His favor, and in her sins, deserving death and eternal separation from Him, BUT God in His mercy gave His Son so that she (we) may have life and have it abundantly, and upon believing and trusting in the perfect work, suffering, death, and resurrection of Christ, she is “born again”, in the likeness of Christ Himself!! This is what it REALLY means to be a Christian. Not America’s view of Christianity, (because I attend a church, or was raised in a family who call themselves “Christian” or because I read the Bible, or believe that Jesus existed.) I pray that you both may come to know Jesus for who He really is and that you would put your trust in Him for eternal life with our creator, just like Abraham did! Many blessings to you!

  5. Mike Sears said

    I too, was disturbed with Mr. Hunt’s idea of closing our borders to Muslims. I think it goes against the grain of Christianity in general and denies the sovereignty of God.

    Psalm 118:8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.

  6. Did you know that Timothy Mcvey claimed to be a Christian??? You probably didnt know that either, but it’s ok. I dont mind teaching miss informed people such as your self. So, is Christianity a religion of violence because of Timothy Mkvey??? Let me answer that for you… No!!! Timothy mis represented the true meaning of being a Christian, just as the terrorists are mis representing Islam.

    A. Notice that what Saif has done here is compare the best of Islam with the worst of Christianity. That’s a violation of the rules of proper argumentation.

    B. Christianity does not, of itself, index itself to the state. Islam does – that is the issue, and that is by no means a misrepresentation of Islam.

    C. Who misrepresents Islam here? Over at answeringmuslims.com we’ve been chatting with a “moderate” Muslim in the UAE who claims to faithfully represent the teachings of Islam. Here’s what he said about violence in the name of Islam:

    “As for invasions by islamic armies. They invaded lands whose rulers were oppressing them. They invaded lands that put a barrier between the preaching of Islam to the people, its like putting a barrier between the doctor and patient.”

    He went on to openly state that it is okay for Muslims to invade a land if it puts up a barrier to Islam and that it isn’t okay for Christianity to do so.

    “Well, no it wouldn’t be right for you because your religion does not teach that this is something that you should do if such a situation arises. Our religion does. Therefore, it would be wrong for you since your religion doesn’t teach it and your doing this from your own line of reasoning.”

    So, who am I to believe here, Saif or Bassam? If Saif thinks he can defend Islam better, then please come to answeringmuslims.com and interact with the posts there.

    D. And in a discussion about rape in Islam, here’s what he said:

    BASSAM SAID: “David said… ‘This would sound frightening to any woman.’ Then follow the Islamic dress code and have no fear.”

    Does this or does this not faithfully reflect the attitude of Muslims. Bassam clearly stated that Non-Muslim women should follow the Islamic dress code so that they won’t be raped by Muslim men.

    E. What Saif is doing is elevating some teachings over the others within the Qu’ran. On the one hand, we’re told that “There shall be no compulsion in religion,” and other such things, but on the other we’re told:

    The Qur’an says:

    “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors”. 2:190

    “قاتلوا في سبيل الله الذين يقاتلونكم ولا تعتدوا إن الله لا يحب المعتدين” البقرة 190:2

    “And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter” 2:191

    ” وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُم مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَلِكَ جَزَاء الْكَافِرِينَ” البقرة 191:2

    “And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and Faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression”. 2:193

    ” وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَواْ فَلاَ عُدْوَانَ إِلاَّ عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ” ابقرة 193:2

    “Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not” 2:216

    ” كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَى أَن تَكْرَهُواْ شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَى أَن تُحِبُّواْ شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ” البقرة 216:2

    “Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory soon shall we give him a reward of great (value)” 4:74

    “فَلْيُقَاتِلْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ الَّذِينَ يَشْرُونَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا بِالآخِرَةِ وَمَن يُقَاتِلْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَيُقْتَلْ أَو يَغْلِبْ فَسَوْفَ نُؤْتِيهِ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا” النساء”74:4

    “Seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” 4:89

    “وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا” النساء 89:4

    “Allah has granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home “4:95

    “لاَّ يَسْتَوِي الْقَاعِدُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ غَيْرُ أُوْلِي الضَّرَرِ وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ فَضَّلَ اللّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ دَرَجَةً وَكُـلاًّ وَعَدَ اللّهُ الْحُسْنَى وَفَضَّلَ اللّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا” النساء 95:4

    “Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly” 8:60

    “وَأَعِدُّواْ لَهُم مَّا اسْتَطَعْتُم مِّن قُوَّةٍ وَمِن رِّبَاطِ الْخَيْلِ تُرْهِبُونَ بِهِ عَدْوَّ اللّهِ وَعَدُوَّكُمْ وَآخَرِينَ مِن دُونِهِمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَهُمُ اللّهُ يَعْلَمُهُمْ وَمَا تُنفِقُواْ مِن شَيْءٍ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ يُوَفَّ إِلَيْكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تُظْلَمُونَ” الأنفال 60:8

    “O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding” 8:65

    “يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ حَرِّضِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ عَلَى الْقِتَالِ إِن يَكُن مِّنكُمْ عِشْرُونَ صَابِرُونَ يَغْلِبُواْ مِئَتَيْنِ وَإِن يَكُن مِّنكُم مِّئَةٌ يَغْلِبُواْ أَلْفًا مِّنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَفْقَهُونَ” الأنفال 65:8

    “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, and heal the breasts of the Believers” 9:14

    “قَاتِلُوهُمْ يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللّهُ بِأَيْدِيكُمْ وَيُخْزِهِمْ وَيَنصُرْكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَيَشْفِ صُدُورَ قَوْمٍ مُّؤْمِنِين” التوبة 14:9

    “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” 9:29

    “قَاتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُون” التوبة 29:9

    “Say: can you expect for us (and fate) other than one of two glorious things (martyrdom or victory)? But we can expect for you either that Allah will send his punishment (for not believing in Allah) from Himself, or by our hands. So wait (expectant); we too will wait with you” 9:52

    “قُلْ هَلْ تَرَبَّصُونَ بِنَا إِلاَّ إِحْدَى الْحُسْنَيَيْنِ وَنَحْنُ نَتَرَبَّصُ بِكُمْ أَن يُصِيبَكُمُ اللّهُ بِعَذَابٍ مِّنْ عِندِهِ أَوْ بِأَيْدِينَا فَتَرَبَّصُواْ إِنَّا مَعَكُم مُّتَرَبِّصُون” التوبة 52:4

    One of the problems here is that, unlike the Bible, which couches its teaching in narrations with context or in very ordered forms, The Qu’ran reads more like a collection of sayings, so it lacks the structure to exegete it, so it makes it easy to elevate one set of principles over another.

    But that’s not all, for here is a selection from the Hadith:

    “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.’” (vol. 4, p. 55)

    “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me…” (vol. 4, p. 124)

    “It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he has made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land…” (vol. 4, p. 161)

    “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” (vol. 9, p. 45)

    “An infidel spy came to the Prophet while he was on a journey. The spy sat with the companions of the Prophet and started talking and then went away. The Prophet said (to his companions), ‘Chase and kill him.’ So, I killed him. The Prophet then gave him the belongings of the killed spy.” (vol. 4, pp. 181-182)

    “Some people from the tribe of Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milk) camels of charity and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophet ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.” (vol. 8, pp. 519-520)

    “The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, “They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans).” (vol. 4, pp. 158-159)

    The above tradition, like many others, is also repeated in other collections of prophet Muhammad’s sayings. In the second most authoritative hadith collection, The Sahih of Muslim, the chapter that discusses this particular saying is entitled, “Permissibility of killing women and children in the night raids, provided it is not deliberate.” The author then goes on to write, “It is reported on the authority of Sa’b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them” (vol. 3, pp. 946-947, Sahih Muslim, translated by Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, 4 vols.)

    So, who are we to believe? Saif or Bassam or the Qu’ran or whichever Imam of choice? Which tradition is a faithful reflection, and where is the supporting argument?

  7. PHS said

    I think Allen made a good point about restricting muslim immigration. We are at WAR…and the enemy is Isalm. While not every muslim is involved in this war, every enemy combatant is a muslim. When you’re at war you don’t allow your enemy to enter your borders…plain and simple.

    The tragedy of 9/11, the train bombing in Spain, and the bus bombings in London, among other were all perpetraded by muslims. There’s an old saying that goes, “when you pee in the well no one gets to drink the water.” Well, we’ve had so many muslims peeing in the well, it’s time to keep’em as far away from the well as possible.

    When Christ said to love your enemies, I don’t think that meant invite them into your home where they can destroy you.

  8. stu said

    To muslim friends: What’s the biggest thing keeping you from converting to Jesus Christ?

    stu

  9. Rebecca said

    Stu,
    I’m not a Muslim, but my answer to your question would be, “My biggest thing keeping me from converting to faith in Jesus Christ is because my religion, Islam, will kill me if I do.” Sadly, the US is waiting for this huge outcry from the Muslim community towards the “radical Islamists”. It’s not going to happen because they know a Muslim will kill a Muslim who does not believe just as he does, just as quickly as they’ll kill a Jew or a Christian, and all in the name of their god.

  10. Anonymous said

    Rebecca, thank the founding fathers of the USA that they had the foresight to keep church and state separate! The headchoppers would be busy at work here too if we were a theocracy.

    The violence has nothing to do with the particular religion, but it has everything to with power. The headchoppers are empowered by the Islamic governments.

  11. Kenneth J said

    America was founded by Christians who wanted a theocracy, yet not a state governed religion – read the Mayflower Compact and other early American writings of the puritans, etc.

    They fled England because of state governed religion, not because they wanted a secular nation. Our founding fathers very much accepted the Bible as God’s word and sought to establish a nation founded on its principles – this is clearly visible in the Declaration of Independance and other important documents written by these men.

    I think American citizens need to be re-educated on their American history – preferably with a history book published back 50 years ago or more(before humanistic liberals decided to rewrite the books and leave out some very important events and change others).

  12. kandace said

    I have studied American History using some of the original documents. I disagree that America was founded to be a Christian theocracy. The founding fathers wanted a society in which they could worship God according to the dictates of their conscience.

    The Biblical basis for American law was because the founding fathers had a common culture around the teachings of God’s Word, not in the spirit of bashing or in a legalistic tone but within an environment ruled by Galatians 5:22-23.

    The Bible is a love letter to Christians. To non-Christians, the Bible is like reading some else’s mail – Read I Cor. 2:14. Only the Holy Spirit can take God’s Word and apply it to a person’s life.

  13. Kenneth J said

    Kandace,
    I’ve noticed you keep saying “legalistic/legalism”. Please define legalism/legalistic for us.

    I came from an IFB denomination, so I am very aware of legalism.

  14. Anonymous said

    “America was founded by Christians who wanted a theocracy, yet not a state governed religion…” – Kenneth J

    Good thing they didn’t succeed.

  15. Kenneth J said

    Anonymous,

    Take a trip to any other nation. Then maybe you’ll realize how blessed you are – thanks to Christians in the past, and Christians in the present who believe that God is supreme and God created for a purpose and reason.

  16. Anonymous said

    Kenneth, you can thank our secular government for your freedom.

  17. kandace said

    I didn’t think that legalistic/legalism needed a definition since the apostle Paul dealt with these people in the book of Galatians. The Jewish people had them in the Pharisees. In essence: one is being legalistic when trying to impose a moral viewpoint on another rather than to bring conflicting values to the table, discuss the issues in a spirit of good-will, humility, prayerfulness in reliance upon the Holy Spirit of God to lead us into all truth as only He can do.

    Jesus said that all men can know you are My disciples if you have love for one another.
    It is not orthodoxy that will touch the hearts of the Islamic people, but those who lovingly live out the Christian faith in genuine discipleship. The world is truly hungry for the agape love of Christ-followers. As we exalt Jesus Christ by displaying the Christian graces of Gal. 5:22-23, we attract people to Him like bees are attracted to honey. We are called upon to live out what He is birthed in us. The Holy Spirit does the converting.

  18. bible believer said

    Legalism is putting forth traditions above the Word of God. Examples are the Judaizers and Pharisees that bound people by traditions and a misinterpretation of the Law of God.

    Doctrine is more important than love, otherwise John Lennons “all we need is love” would be true. It is important to show forth His light in love and to love other believers as Christ loved the Church.

    But we must also defend the faith and preach the word in truth. We must stand fast and be apologetic. A Christian can be the most soft spoken or eloquent speaker and yet be stoned to death because of the message. A Christian can be the harshest and worst orator ever and 1,000’s converted. It is God who calls and saves, inspite of the messenger. Examples of this are Paul, Jonah, Moses, Peter, and Stephen.

    There are many examples of Jesus Christ and the apostles not showing “love” to others in the Scriptures, at least in our opinion. Yet, would we dare call them legalistic? We can’t pick and choose verses in the Scriptures, for all of it is the Whole counsel of God.

  19. anonymous said

    Does the New Testament say these things?

    “By this they will know you are my disciples, that you expound right doctrine to one another?” Or the great commandment is “to have right doctrine toward the Lord your God, and the second one is like unto it, that you have the right doctrine toward your neighbor.”

  20. bible believer said

    You can’t have love without truth. That is both Old and New Testament. What is our love based on? The person of Jesus Christ – He is Agape.

    Islam denies His deity. Truth overrides human love. We are to love God first and foremost, then others based on the truth of His word.

    Doctrine is critical in the Christian faith – what was the point of the reformation?

  21. anonymous said

    Bible Believer,

    My only point was that saying that doctrine is more important than love is an overstatement. We cannot claim to be Christian without being loving. Doctrine is also important, because there are some beliefs which are “out of bounds” so to speak and harmful to the body. In the original context of this discussion, Islam is not compatible with Christianity because they deny, as you point out, the divinity of Christ. Unitarians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or others who would deny the trinity are also not Christian in my opinion. Love and right belief are both essential. The letters to Ephesus and Thyatira in the first part of Revelation are indicative of this. Ephesus was commended for not tolerating false teaching but was condemned for having lost “its first love” or also translated “the love it had at first.” On the other hand, Thyatira was a church full of charity and love, but was condemned for tolerating a “Jezebel.”

    Anonymous #19

  22. kandace said

    To Bible Believer:

    I never meant to downplay doctrine because it is through doctrine that I learned that I had broken God’s laws (acted independently of God), deserved God’s eternal punishment for my disobedience, learned how to become reconciled to God, learned of God’s grace, received the faith necessary to receive Christ into my life to become a new creature in Christ Jesus, become an adopted daughter of the Most High God Himself. All of this because of His love letter written to me – The Bible.

    My intention was the atmosphere in which doctrine is interjected into the conversation.
    If doctrine is not shared in a spirit of love, it becomes harsh and repulsive even if true.
    This was the Pharisee’s problem. Jesus was harder on the Pharisees than He was on the sinner who could be reached with the Gospel with a dose of His love (study the woman at the well for an example).

    Remember that Jesus said that by love people would know that we are His disciples. Why must a person choose between doctrine and love?
    As I understand the Bible, both are equally important.

  23. Anonymous said

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