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What’s Your Pastor’s Perspective on the War in Iraq?

Posted by truthtalklive on July 23, 2007

Is your church taking a position on the war in Iraq?  Should your pastor speak out?

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35 Responses to “What’s Your Pastor’s Perspective on the War in Iraq?”

  1. anonymous said

    As a pastor I would feel uncomfortable being too strongly supportive of a war from the pulpit, simply because war is never good, some are necessary but none are good. Pastors do better to spend some time in Bible studies teaching on “just war theory” so that the parishioners can judge for themselves whether a particular war is just based on what the church has traditionally taught. Any church with people who are deployed must pray for their members, support their families back home, and should not make any antiwar statements out of respect for the families.

  2. Troy said

    Anonymous above is correct, and the “just war theory” has traditionally been the stance of the church in America until this “war on” the tactic called “terrorism”.

    Of bigger concern is that we now have moved to supporting undeclared war, something our founding fathers warned us of and made clear in the Constitution. In case you think the war in Iraq war declared, it was not. Look it up, Rep. Ron Paul attempted to “force” the congress to actually declare war but they would not. This allows them to be on either side later, as we now see.
    The undeniable AMERICAN Christian position of war is further restricted by the constitutional position of war… declared war, not nation building.

  3. kandace said

    Our pastor has taken a stand to support the war in Iraq because the President has the troops in the Mid East area and we need to support the troops while we are there. Another reason he supports the war is because of the Al Queda terrorist organization and other radical Islamic groups. We are still fighting the same groups as Christians have fought since the Crusades. These groups only respect strength. They don’t think we have the resolve to take on the radical Islamic groups to win. Another point our pastor made is that we are fighting the same enemies that God told Joshua and the Children of Israel to destroy utterly. Their failure to obey God’s command to them led to fighting these enemies up to the present day.

  4. Anonymous said

    Kandace, have you ever read the Iraq Constitution that our President has us fighting for? It states that Iraq is an Islamic Republic and no laws can contradict the laws of Islam. So our soldiers are fighting for the very thing that you say we are fighting against.

    Does that sound like something we need to be fighting for?

  5. Hank said

    At the beginning of the show, Stu, you stated that the soldiers returning from Vietnam were “spat upon by Hillary Clinton”.

    Now, I understand that you are a right winger, and that you like to politicize wars and religion, etc. but I’d like you to show us your source for that statement.

    You need to think about what you say, Stu. Someone tuning in to “Truth Talk Live” will get the message that Jesus is a Republican, and that Democrats can’t be real Christians. Is that what you mean to say?

    Best Regards,

    Hank (a liberal Christian)

  6. Anonymous said

    So, Stu, do we steadfastly support our government regardless of the justification of it’s actions? When is enough enough? Are all wars started by our government just wars?

    When does a Christian say no, this is an unjust war that my government is involved in and I am speaking out against it?

    I would say that time is now.

  7. anonymous said

    Hank,
    I’m a Republican and moderately conservative Christian, but would agree with you that too often some of the opinions here can lead to the impression that Jesus is a Republican. I proudlly am, but he is not. That might be the only thing we would agree on (I don’t know) on that you are right. We need to leave politics and geo-strategy out of the pulpit.

  8. John said

    “War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

    — John Stuart Mill

  9. Anonymous said

    John, what exactly are we fighting for this time?

  10. kandace said

    To Anonymous
    This is a different kind of war we are fighting. The adversary is Al-Queda. The enemy person is Osama Ben Laden, the master mind behind the 911 attack of the World Trade Center. This ruthless enemy, the radical Islam, will come to our shores if we don’t defeat this dangerous strain of Islam.

  11. Anonymous said

    Kandace, Bin Laden’s group wasn’t in Iraq until we went there. So, why did we invade Iraq? And why do you think helping to establish a new Islamic Republic in Iraq is a good thing?

  12. kandace said

    Anonymous
    We didn’t exactly know where Bin Laden’s group were. We are still hunting the fragments of the groups. The intelligence data as revealed in the news media claimed that Iraq was a possible location. We were also going after Saddam Hussein. We didn’t establish the Islamic republic in Iraq. The Iraqi people did. It is their choice. To them, it is better than life under Saddam Hussein. I would prefer an American-style democracy, but that is not my choice to make.

  13. Anonymous said

    So, let me get this straight. We are fighting against Islamic fundamentalism, but we are helping to establish Islamic fundamentalism in Iraq.

    That’s just nutty.

    What’s clear to most of us is that this war in Iraq was started to further the political agenda of the right wingers in the White House.

  14. Troy said

    Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI has made it public that the Justice Department does not have enough evidence to convict Bin Laden for the attack on 9-11-01. That is the reason it is not mentioned on the FBI wanted poster or page for Bin Laden. Look it up. Iraq was not connected to the attacks. If any countries in the middle east were it was Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt (the alleged hijackers were from Saudi and Egypt.) Look it up. All of that aside, the Constitution does not authorize nation building, foreign humanitarian police action or any other non defensive war powers.

    Several have made good points here like the fact that Iraq is an Islamic Republic yet we keep hearing that we are fighting radical Islam. Many Christians today lack the ability to think and understand these issues because they merely listen and repeat what they are told. i know, I was there myself a couple of years ago. Do yourself a favor and Google: PNAC Rebuilding America’s Defenses
    … and read that 2000 document. Then go look on their website and see who founded and contribute to PNAC. Respectfully, if you are not willing to look into these facts you are ignorant of the situation. Come on Christians, we were once the best thinkers and leaders in this country!

    Pure and simple, in America, our Constitution does not authorize preemptive war and neither does the “Just War Theory” of traditional Christianity. We didn’t even declare war properly through Congress. The price will be paid by our children and grand children if this method of foreign policy continues unabated.

    Worse yet, through Executive orders, the President has now given himself the power to take everything an American has or owns if they speak out against this illegal war. See it here:http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070717-3.html

    Pastors need to inform their sheep about the principles of liberty and freedom that our founders fought and died for before it is to late.

    Prayerfully,
    Troy

  15. Anonymous said

    I guess Stu is standing by his comments that Hillary Clinton “spat upon” returning U.S. servicemen.

    I’d still like to know his source for that.

    Truth Talk Live?

    We’ll see.

  16. stu said

    Sorry guys, my internet has been down for several days and I was busy just now posting on the witch blog…….very interesting

    Hank(and anonymous),
    I admit I was a bit excercised during that opening monologue, and maybe a bit excessive in my point about Hilary.
    My point was to accentuate her and Bill’s anti-war stance in that era. No—I’m not acccusing her of ‘actually’ spitting on anyone, and I apologize for any indication of this on the show that day. But, Yes—it was her ‘ilk’ that led the parade of shameful anti-war activity. Look what happened when we pulled out.

    Sadly, many like her are advocating repeating the mistakes of vietnam by prematurly abandoning the Iraqi’s to their nefarious neighbors, or by decreasing funding for our troops.. When we bailed on S. Vietnam did the enemy pursue peace ? They didn’t stop until millions more were ruthlessly slaughtered or displaced.

    Will the insurgents suddenly want to make peace if we pull out of Iraq? Look for a blood bath. We do need solid strategy that get’s their gov’t up on it’s feet. And then we should all be for pulling out
    No, I don’t like all the circumstances that got us there. But did we not make a committment-?—what about Ps 15:4 ?

    These politicians are great at analyzing the polls, and surveys—–but what about doing what’s right?

    What about Integrity?

    On Jesus being a Republican or a Democrat, thank goodness he’s neither! And thank goodness his mercy and salvation is extended to people of all political parties.

    Hank, as a ‘liberal Christian’ would you be willing to go on the air to dicuss some of these things? or maybe you know of another prospective guest? Maybe someone like Tony Campolo?

    This is an important conversation—–because whether we like it or not we ARE at war! Nevertheless, even if Christians disagree on the Iraqi war, we all must have a united front on the war for the souls of men and the advancement of the gospel to a lost and dying world.
    stu

    by the way—be sure to check out Gary Demar—guest hosting on Wed–he’s tackling the issue of should Christians get out of politics altogether?
    perhaps somewhat related to this discussion…..

  17. Hank said

    Stu, thanks for the reply. I guess the difference in our points of view is that I don’t think we should honor immoral wars. Vietnam and Iraq were and are immoral wars in my opinion.

    Tell us Stu, when should we stand up and say “no” to war?

    I say the time has come. The same as forty years ago with Vietnam.

    Hank,
    A liberal, non-broadcast participating Christian

  18. Marvin Slifer - pastor said

    I was the ‘In studio’ guest for this show and have appreciated every one of the comments made. I don’t personally agree with all of you but you were interesting and many of your ideas challenged my own. I hope these following comments will do the same for you as you have done for me.

    Here’s a thought I haven’t read in the comments above. On September 11, 2001, a preemptive attack on the United States was launched, murdering approx. 3000 civilians and doing billions of dollars of damage to our properties in the form of buildings, jumbo jets, and even our pentagon.

    The thought that the United States launched a preemptive attack strikes me as not being a well thought out statement.

    Sometimes our choices seem to be between bad or worse more than between good and bad. I would classify the attack on the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan as that kind of choice. The U.S. could do what no one wants to do which is certainly bad or we can accept the consequences of non-action which is believed to be much worse.

    This type of action by France, coming to the Colonies to fight with us against Britons, was a major factor contributing to the freedoms we enjoy today.

    Also, as Christians I believe we have the biblical mandate of standing with Israel (Genesis 12: 1-3). Saddam and Al Qaeda both have made their purpose clear to destroy Israel and anyone who stands with her.

    I believe Al Qaeda is seeking world dominance through creating world wide fear. This is much the same as the bully in the school yard or the mafia or even the gangs in our communities. The fact is that the one we fear the most is the one(s) that will control what we do or don’t do. They are sending their message that anyone who stands in the way of their right to destroy Israel will ‘pay’ their price.

    Isn’t it amazing that God teaches us to fear Him (who loves us) and show that by obeying what He teaches us in the Bible and we need not fear people. In fact, the very 1st step in gaining wisdom is to fear Him! Psa 111:10 etc.

    Since most or all of you who have responded here are Christians, these words are meant to encourage you to continually honor and obey God. Then pray continually for our leaders, all of them! No one, including President Bush and Hillery Clinton etc. can know all they need to know to govern a people rightly. Only God has that kind of wisdom and omniscience.

    Personally, I love reading your very different feelings, perceptions, and opinions about these issues expressed. That’s part of what makes life so interesting and fun. So, from Stu’s ‘In studio’ guest. Thank you for each one of your responses!

    Marvin Slifer

  19. Anonymous said

    “The thought that the United States launched a preemptive attack strikes me as not being a well thought out statement.” – Marvin Slifer

    The fact is that the U.S. led invasion of Iraq was by definition preemptive.

    So, think again.

  20. Anonymous said

    “Here’s a thought I haven’t read in the comments above. On September 11, 2001, a preemptive attack on the United States was launched, murdering approx. 3000 civilians and doing billions of dollars of damage to our properties in the form of buildings, jumbo jets, and even our pentagon.” – Marvin Slifer

    It was an act of murder, yes, and should have been prosecuted as such. But, we invaded and those accomplices to murder still walk free.

  21. Marvin Slifer - pastor said

    To ‘Anonymous’ and ‘Think again’,

    If you are expressing legitimate thoughts for debate, come out of your ‘Anonymous’ closet and tell us who you are.

    Definition: “preemptive or preemptive adj. 1. of or pertaining to preemption. 2. taken as a measure against something possible, anticipated, or feared; preventive; deterrent” – Webster

    The US-A didn’t attack itself on 9/11/’01 that was Al Qaeda’s ‘great’ accomplishment. We did however respond to their actions of war upon us several months later.

    You have every right to disagree with my opinion but you do not have the right to rewrite the definitions of words. I appreciate your understanding on this.

    I’m always troubled by anyone who is so sure they have all the facts and have them in the correct order they can condemn those who disagree. I don’t think you were intending to sound that way but it’s getting dangerously close to that.

    Conservatives and liberals, Communists and Nazis, Christians and Muslims etc. etc. can and do rewrite history to favor themselves but the truth always suffers and the facts are never changed. The issue we all battle is finding and supporting the truth vs. promotion of personal perspectives.

    “A ‘partial truth’ can be told so many times that the majority of people believe it but it’s still a partial truth.”

    The great difficulty we mortals have is discerning what is truth and what is fabricated information meant to propagate another’s personal agenda. It’s my opinion that most of the information fed to us from most sources is at least sprinkled with fabrications. That is and will always be a quest of discovery.

    Rhetoric is intended to tell us ‘what to fear’ and ‘who to blame.’ That tactic is as old as Satan in the Garden of Eden and stinks with the stench of decay. We can do better than that!

    Rather than seeking grounds to condemn, let’s pray for God’s ‘Hedge of protection’ to be around all of us and all of our leaders. God is the only one who knows the beginning from the end. He must be our focus. It is my opinion that rhetoric is repeated by people who are willfully blind in one eye.

    Rather than getting lost in condemning and blaming, we can put our enemies in God’s perspective and rejoice in His plans. King David illustrated what this would look like in Psalm 27.

    (1) A Psalm of David. The Lord is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; Of whom shall I be afraid? (2) When the wicked came against me To eat up my flesh, My enemies and foes, They stumbled and fell. (3) Though an army may encamp against me, My heart shall not fear; Though war should rise against me, In this I will be confident. Psalms 27:1-3 (NKJV)

    When I read Scripture like this, I’m no longer filled with anger and fear, I’m brought to humility and praise. I like that difference.

    Here’s another verse that gives me great confidence, “The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 2 Peter 2:9 (NKJV)

    AWESOME!

    Thanks for your rebuttal to my previous comments.

    Marvin Slifer – Pastor

  22. Anonymous said

    “You have every right to disagree with my opinion but you do not have the right to rewrite the definitions of words.”

    I said that the U.S. led invasion of Iraq was a preemptive attack. Which it was. The president’s justification for the invasion was to preemptively remove the threat of weapons of mass destruction that Iraq was (supposedly) hoarding.

    So, think some more.

  23. Marvin Slifer - pastor said

    To Anonomous – Think some more,

    You are still hiding who your are for some reason. Come out of your closet and I will continue replying to you. Otherwise, I can’t put any stock on what you’re saying. This will be my last response to you until you come clean.

    By the way, you don’t have the right to rewrite history either, even if you don’t like someone or approve of an action. Of course you know that, so stop doing what you must know is not acceptable just to attempt to prove your perspective.

    You disrespect yourself and those whom you are communicating with by hiding your opinions behind altared facts.

    Again, I love that you have differing opinions from mine. And if we all filter our opinions through the same facts we will still have differing oppinions. That’s both good and healthy.

    Marvin Slifer – Pastor

  24. Anonymous said

    What altered facts?

  25. kandace said

    To Martin Slifer,

    Don’t take it so hard that anonymous has chosen to hide. Maybe there are more than one person who chooses to use “anonymous” as the covered term. Anonymous has chosen to use the security of this alias for personal reasons – maybe fear of open confrontation on this board?

  26. hank said

    “Sadly, many like her are advocating repeating the mistakes of vietnam by prematurly abandoning the Iraqi’s to their nefarious neighbors, or by decreasing funding for our troops.. When we bailed on S. Vietnam did the enemy pursue peace ?” – Stu

    Stu, we failed in Vietnam not by “bailing”, but by getting involved in that war to begin with. Same thing in Iraq.

    If you had falsely accused your neighbor of stealing your lawn mower and then broken into his garage to find out that no, he hadn’t stolen it, what would you do? Would you admit your mistake and assume responsibility for your actions. Why can’t Bush and co. admit their mistakes and act responsibly in Iraq and other places?
    Answer: because they are pursuing this war for political purposes.

    I ask you again:

    When does a citizen of the U.S.A. stand up and say “No, this war is unjust”?

  27. Anonymous said

    To Hank,

    I appreciate your logic because if discovering weapons of mass destruction was the justification for the war, we have no business being in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    When our President first declared his intentions to engage our country in war, I understood him to say his reasons were; to eradicate the evil personified in Al Qaeda led by Osama and the genocide of Israel which Saddam represented. I didn’t hear anything about W/O/M/D until sometime later. However, that objective was clearly stated before our troops entered Iraq.

    If you’ll transpose your logic into that That is certainly part of what frustrates so many of us who want to support our president’s decision to be in these countries.

    I felt that engaging in a war with these objectives would only bring those angry with the US-A, for any reason, to join in the battle against us. The only possibility would be a continually expanding conflict.

    Every war is multifaceted and as such the solutions are seldom clear because the threats are somewhat obscure. We don’t seem to perceive Al Qaeda as an immediate threat to America, so we resent our soldiers fighting and dying there.

    I think we both agree that integrity is still a primary issue. You would say integrity means we admit our mistake and leave. I would say that is what our Presidents political enemies are focused upon, not what the real issues are. Integrity must include, “Saying what we mean, and meaning what we say.”

    I enjoyed your comments Hank.

    Marvin Slifer

  28. Hank said

    “Every war is multifaceted and as such the solutions are seldom clear because the threats are somewhat obscure.” – Marvin Slifer

    Nonsense, Marvin. In WW2 the threats were clear cut and the solutions were easily understandable.

    When I hear that my government is holding people in secret torture prisons then I know something is wrong at the top.

    Hank

  29. Anonymous said

    To Hank

    Good point about torture prisons. However, I respectfully disagree with your analysis of WW2.
    Atrocities by Nazis Germany were ‘Evil saturated.’ The reasons for fighting them were as clear as US-A reason for fighting the ‘Evil saturated’ in the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

    The homeland of the Afghanistan was stolen by the Taliban and Al Qaeda stated their intent to take the land of Israel and to destroy the Israelites.

    Eventually US-A joined in the 2nd WW and we committed some of the evils of the very evils we were fighting against. Especially, we should note, when the US-A took the war to the civilians of Japan with an atomic bomb.

    I appreciate your point about and actually agree to the point that torturing prisoners is wrong and actually against both the Geneva Conv.
    and decent human behavior.

    Fighting evil always involves more than looking in a single direction at a single source.

    Thanks for your response Hank.

    Marvin Slifer

  30. Hank said

    Marvin ol’ chap, the reason we were fighting the Germans is because they declared war on us. They were a nation with recognized borders and a standing army that had overwhelmed Europe and was about to invade Russia. They declared war on us and attacked our ships at sea.

    How is that like Bush’s reasons for invading Iraq?

  31. Anonymous said

    To Hank

    I guess the similarities between fighting in WW#2 and fighting in Iraq would be two fold.

  32. Marvin Slifer said

    To Hank

    The similarities between fighting in WW#2 and fighting in Iraq could be seen in the declaration of war against the US-A with the slaughter of approx 3,000 civilian Americans. That murderous act was taken credit for by Al Qaeda and ,through Osama, the Taliban. Conquering and occupying Afghanistan also identifies the Taliban.

    Iraq isn’t specifically mentioned in either scenario, so why Iraq? 1st. Saddam’s declaration to destroy and occupy Israel and his proud support of terrorist and their murderous activities.

    This is not an exact parallel to our helping England but it’s not far from it. Much like Germany bombing England, the terrorist bombings in Israel are seen with alarming regularity. The US-A has committed to support and protect Israel so integrity would compell us to keep our word. Especially when our commitment is to protect lives rather than the terrorist’s commitment to destroy life no matter who or where.

    The murderous bombing of our Twin Towers and the Pentagon would qualify very closely with the Nazis destroying our ships.

    The commitment of the Taliban to grow and export heroin to the US-A and other democracies is very similar to the war tactics used by Japan to weaken and conquer China. Also, through Osama, the Taliban also took credit for the murderous bombings and killing of innocent civilians on 9/11/’01 and many, many others.

    The Taliban isn’t the only group committed to the export of drugs but it is an identifiable one that allows the US-A to fight back at a specific target.

    Satan’s tactics to, ‘Kill, steal, and destroy,’ the crown of God’s creation in mankind never change. And because we can see throughout history the evils we humans are capable of when we ignore our creator God, I passionately believe our alignment needs to be with God by serving Him with everything we are, have, and can be. We need to be done with making our President out to be a legitimate target of our scorn.

    I believe we need to identify the real enemy and join forces with Jesus Christ who demonstrated His Power and authority over Satan and evil. He exposed some religious leaders as frauds but He didn’t use His power to destroy them. Instead He used His power and authority to destroy any hope Satan may have ever had of supremacy. Ultimate victory was guaranteed for Christ and all those who follow and obey Him when He physically arose from the dead.

    Our Presidents, and every other world leader, are in essence small players in view of God’s eternal plans and His eternal glory. Fighting our President is a very narrow focus. Fighting evil and and the usurped authority over mankind Satan exercises is the legitimate target of our scorn.

    When one person who is committed to evil is removed, another is ready to succeed them. War isn’t about the pawns on the board, its about Satan and his powers of darkness fighting for the souls of God’s creation.

    I believe our energies are much better spent sharing God’s great glory and His passion to redeem and restore the lives of broken and desperate people. People who can see the hopelessness of a life controlled by evil and those who practice evil ways. Refer to Psalm 1

    Hank, I gave much more than just an answer to your question. This however will reveal why I feel fighting our President is so short sighted. That is true whether we’re referring to President Bill Clinton or President George W. Bush.

    Whether we personally voted for President Bush to be President isn’t the issue. The issue is that he was lawfully elected to be our President and therefore our obligation is to continually pray for him, and all those in authority over us, for God’s direction and peace to be upon them.

    Hank, I enjoy the challenge of your comments and questions. It’s good for all of us to know where we stand on these issues, hence, the radio show by Stu devoted to this issue.

    Marvin Slifer

  33. Hank said

    Marvin, is there a point where you would be willing to oppose a war that our government gets involved in? I hope so.

    I think we disagree about the history of and the causes of wars and their justification. I also think we disagree about our Christian duties to those in authority over us.

  34. Troy said

    As I posted earlier in this thread, Bin laden is not even wanted for 9-11 officially (check the FBI wanted page and my earlier post referencing the FBI’s Rex Tomb statement about a lack of evidence), the office that specifically was “chasing” him has been officially closed, not to mention the president has publically stated he is not worried about him. Something is wrong with this. Look into PNAC (Project for a New American Century) writings prior to 9-11-01, the current situation was already “on the table” recommended and ready to go.
    As for al Qaeda and bin Laden, the Constitution provided a more effective means of dealing with terrorists through Congress authorizing “letters of marque and reprisal” (but most of you probably have not heard of that… read the Constitution – article 1, section 8 – stealth warriors for none state enemies basically) that, had the Congress given this to the President, we would not be in foreign wars but specifically hunting the perpetrators of the 9-11-01 crime.
    That brings me to Iraq. Pure and simple, since we seem to want to discuss “what is right”, the Congress failed to declare war as required by the Constitution. That is a fact, period. There is a reason for this and it is the same as it has been since WWII. Congress passes “resolutions” for the same reason president’s abuse Executive Orders… to bestow power without the responsibility built into our great system of government, effectively voiding any balance or check of power and discarding any responsibility later.
    No matter what happened, who attacked us or for what reason… no matter how evil the “enemy” is, no matter what, a declaration of war by the Congress is REQUIRED. Or did the founders just over look the possibility that we may have to goto war sometime? No, they knew history and the dangers and burden of war to a free country.
    As for the reason we attacked and now occupy Iraq, it was not because they had anything to do with 9-11, as the President himself has stated. That’s right, he has said that no one in the administration has said that. This is public. He and others have also conceded that the intel was “bad” and there were no WMDs. So now that we know we went for the wrong reasons we now must stay for the wrong reasons? No. All those who are saying (in the administration anyway) that Iraq will be a blood bath, are the same ones that said it would be a cake walk to go. Why would anyone believe these same people? By the way, there is now talk of a draft again by the President’s new “war adviser”. And where does it end? We are borrowing our money from China to continue this war (and everything else) as it is… talk about a national risk. How does everyone propose we pay for this endless war? (Actually the Vice President has said it will only last 100 years, but who’s keeping track of what they say anyway?)
    So, if you want to argue that we must continue this “war on terror” because “they” want to get us… you are living in un-biblical fear and everyday our collective memory gets further from the supposed reason we went over there in the first place (to get the criminals that attacked us on 9-11) all the while more Americans and thousands of civilians die. All this we do while completely ignoring the Constitution of the United States. And that is patriotic?
    As Christians, how can we ignore the supreme law of the land and promote and agree with politicians (on both sides) that have always proven there unfaithfulness and worldly wisdom in just about all they do.
    Christians wake up! Since 9-11 the executive and legislative branches have put in place laws and executive orders that frankly rival the most draconian of tyrannical governments of the past, all in the name of “safety and security”. Get some guts and do some thinking people of God. We are in a heap of trouble if we continue down the wide path of empire on which we are traveling. And whatever you do, please oh please do not suggest that we are somehow fulfilling prophecy by conducting the war on Islam or terror or whatever. This flawed theology of apathy toward government accountability has damaged the traditional impact that the body of Christ once had in this great nation of ours.
    We evangelicals are addicted to the milk of self help theology of retail Christianity and care nothing of real involvement and influence in the one country in history where we not only can but have a duty to be involved.
    Please take these things to heart, we need to pray and we need to seek God’s Word in search of the traditional Christian view of a just war, not the end justifies the means mentality of the world.

    Troy

  35. Perky said

    Jam 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.
    Jam 3:14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.
    Jam 3:15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.
    Jam 3:16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
    Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
    Jam 3:18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

    Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
    1Pe 3:11 Let him turn away from evil and do good; Let him seek peace and pursue it.

    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

    1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

    1Co 7:15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.

    Rom 16:20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

    Rom 14:19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another.

    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

    Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.

    Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

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