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Have Signs, wonders, and Miracles Ceased? Part III

Posted by truthtalklive on July 6, 2007

Have Signs, wonders, and Miracles Ceased? Part III

Guest: Professor Dr. David Legrand

http://www.chalkmart.com/

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14 Responses to “Have Signs, wonders, and Miracles Ceased? Part III”

  1. David said

    A couple of questions for Dr. Legrand (if you check this live):

    1) Where does the Bible lump together the particular gifts which he believes to have ceased? So many people do so in calling these more “miraculous” gifts, but does the Bible do so? If so, where? If not, then why are we lumping them together? Shouldn’t we just take a safer and less arbitrary position of saying “all” spiritual gifts have ceased if we say that any have ceased? (I don’t believe this to be the case, however.)

    2) Where in the Bible does it say that “the perfect” of 1 Corinthians 13 is the Word of God? Wouldn’t it make a lot more sense to say “the perfect” is Jesus when He returns vs. the Bible? The Scriptures say that “when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away”. So, if “the perfect” is the Bible, then why do we still have partial knowledge? Why does the church of the Living God still seem as problematic as the church that was receiving this epistle? It sure doesn’t seem like the church sees the truth “face to face” as the passage states. Also, if someone believes the Bible is “the perfect”, then they also must hold to knowledge having passed away (1 Corinthians 13:8)… not just miraculous signs and wonders.

  2. eric said

    mr. legrand, how can you say that God heals as he wills. What exactly is the will of God. You are a very intelligent man so i know you know several scriptures about His will. secondly, you said on the show that if God healed everyone then we wouldnt die. Then you said look at lazarus; he got healed and still lived. This is a contradictory statement. thirdly can we belive some of the bible and discard what our finite minds cannot comprehend.NO NO NO. Sir i beg of you to seek out and receive the holy ghost and build a relationship with him. please sir remember that the pharisees knew the word and did not understand because they had no revelation. what knows the mind of a man but the spirit of a man. who knows the mind of God but his spirit. God will do what we believe can.

  3. Horace Riley said

    1. God’s will is that we be in health III John 1:2, Psalms 103:3
    2. People do not heal people; God heals people. Psalms 103:3
    3. God heals people today just as He did in times past. I have seen it. I have experienced it.
    4. People get sick sometimes because there is a sin issue in their life. Proverbs 26:2 If they recognize, take responsibility, repent of the sin, then they WILL be healed. John 5, Mark 2:1-11 Jesus forgave people of their sin before they were healed.
    5. People do not understand what God has said in His handbook-the Bible. Isaiah 5:13-14 We must renew our minds daily and stop living in sin.
    5.

  4. Ryan said

    Mr. Legrand, First off God does heal people, I have personally seen it, and so have many others, which makes us all a witness to the healing. Secondly, Some people can argue that God doesn’t heal or perform miracle but you know what, HE DOES! God uses his children to perform the miracles and heal the people of this earth… Which yes God does use his children to do those tasks but you have to remember that his children get the power to heal the sick from who? and his children get the chance to perform a miracle from whom? the answer is God! So if you want to parade around saying God doesn’t do any of what the bible says he does, you my friend are very wrong and as said above, You need to really think about what the bible is saying and put how you are interpreting the message back into its perspective. Thank you for your time and have a blessed day.

  5. John C. Whitcomb said

    Does God Want Christians to Perform Miracles Today?
    by Dr. John C. Whitcomb

    One of Satan’s most insidious purposes, through the ages, has been to enter a wedge between God’s people and God’s infallible, inerrant Word. It all began in the Garden of Eden when “the father of lies” asked Eve, “Yea, hath God said…?” and it continues today without abatement. Two distinct but related levels of this Satanic strategy can be detected in our day:

    1. Rationalistic doubts and denials of the supernatural acts of God as recorded in Scripture. This is being most keenly felt in evangelical circles today through various compromises with the theory of organic evolution, which attempts to reduce the great creative miracles of God to mere providential processes.

    2. The other strategy of the enemy is to encourage Christians to imagine present-day miracles where there are none, through the claims of self-appointed miracle workers.

    The goal of the first strategy is to take away the Bible from us piece by piece, until we wonder what pieces of infallible Scripture are still left to us.
    The goal of the second strategy is to take us away from the Bible by centering our attention on new claims of divine revelation by modern prophets, or on new and supernatural experiences and powers so that we have little time or interest in searching the Scriptures for God’s truth and for God’s revealed ways of perpetuating and promoting it.

    I. The Pressure is On
    In every generation men have gravitated to religions that offer signs and wonders as their basic appeal. This has been a principal source of power for Roman Catholicism, which claims a continuing revelation accompanied by continuing signs. And what modern, fast-growing cult is devoid of prophets and miracle-workers? Old-line Pentecostalism, and now the “Neo-Pentecostal” movement, offer the miracle of tongues, the interpretation of tongues, and even faith-healers that attract millions. In tune with the times, Protestant liberalism has abandoned its old rationalistic formulas in favor of a more vibrant existentialism called Neo-Orthodoxy, which offers a direct “word” from God to sincere individual seekers the world over, whether they have actually heard of the historical Christ or not.
    What may be considered a natural desire by men to see some token of God has surely been accelerated by the suffocating atmosphere of twentieth-century uniformitarian scientism. If Satan cannot take away the true God by the pressure of theroretical or practical atheism in the academic world, he will attempt to do so by pushing men to the invention of false gods that cannot really save or satisfy. That is surely the crisis of the present hour.
    The prophet Isaiah felt such pressures in Judah 700 years before Christ. On the one hand, the deep skepticism of that age was represented by King Ahaz himself, who completely rejected God’s offer of a great supernatural sign (Isa. 7:12). On the other hand, superstitious men (possibly including King Ahaz) were encouraging one another: “Consult the mediums and the wizards who whisper and mutter” (Isa. 8:19). The true answer to such pressures was not that God never performs miracles, but that He does so on His terms only, and in accordance with His revealed program of history and redemption. “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn” (Isa. 8:20). Thus, Isaiah himself cried out to God for global and spectacular signs of His power as in the days of Moses at Mount Sinai (Isa. 64:1-3). And an even greater prophet, John the Baptist, sent two of his friends to Jesus to ask why the full glory of the Kingdom Age was not yet being manifested (Matt. 11:2-6). Our Lord was continually teacing His disciples to pray for stupendous miracles when He taught them to pray: “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, in earth as it is in heaven.” Their minds fascinated by this prospect, the disciples came to Jesus and pointedly asked Him, after His resurrection, “Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” His answer was not that there would never be such a literal kingdom and that God would never reveal His great power and glory to men. His answer to them was, in effect, “Not yet” (Acts 1:7).

    II. God’s Plan and Purpose for Miracles
    People often ask why it is, if God is still alive and powerfull, He does not perform through men of faith today the same kinds of signs and wonders He performed when Christ and the apostles were here. The answer is that God has a plan in His dealings with men, and that plan does not happen to include a constant repetition of the same kinds of miracles in every time and place. If this were His plan, then miracles would lose their unique sign value because they would be taken for granted. God has wisely protected the significance of miracles in history by rarity of their occurrence, even in Bible times. Enoch’s translation was the only miracle in over 1,700 years between Adam and the Flood. For centuries Israel suffered in Egypt with no special voice from heaven. Only rarely did a miracle occur during the centureis from Joshua to David. And God protected the absolute uniqueness of His Son’s miraculous ministry by withholding all miracles for centuries beforehand–Even from John the Baptist, the forerunner himself (John 11:41).
    Why did Christ perform miracles during His public ministry? Was it to prove that God existed? Was it primarily to help people who were sick, crippled, or in special physical need? No, the purpose was to identify Himself as Israel’s true Messiah and ot confirm the new revelation He was bringing to the nation (John 20:30-31; Acts 2:22). Thus, the healing of the paralytic man was not for the primary purpose of helping him, or to prove that God exists, but “that ye may know that the Son of Man hath authority on earth to forgive sins” (Matt. 9:6; cf. Deut. 18:22). When John the Baptist momentarily questioned His Messianic identity, Jesus pointed to the people He had just healed as a fulfillment of the Messianic promise of Isaiah 35:5-6 (cf. Matt. 11:4). Israel was thus historically conditioned to expect signs as the proper credentials of their Messiah and His apostles (John 4:48; I Cor. 1:22; II Cor. 12:12; Rom. 15:19; Heb. 2:3, 4). The great tragedy, of course, was that Israel willfully rejected the signs God did give to them (Matt. 12:38; I Cor. 14:21-22).
    If supernatural signs were thus intended to serve as confirmations of God’s special messengers and their message, it seems obvious that such signs would no longer be needed after these messengers had brought their message. In fact, a sign without a message is worse than useless, as Paul and Barnabas discovered to their horror at Lystra (Acts 14:8-18). Thus, the superstructure of the true Church is built upon a foundation which consists exclusively of Christ and His apostles (Eph. 2:20; I Cor. 3:10-11; Rev. 21:14). Since the foundation of a building only needs to be laid once, we may be sure that God has not given any new revelation to His people since the apostles died. The fact that only His apostles belonged in the foundation is seen clearly in our Lord’s high priestly prayer, when He prayed for those who would believe on Him “through their word,” namely, the word of the apostles to whom “all the truth” would be given by the Holy Spirit (John 17:20; 16:13). To invent a message as from God when God has not spoken is dangerous indeed, for God is infinitely jealous of the boundary lines of His revelation to men (cf. Deut. 4:2; 12:32; 18:20; Prov. 30:5-6; Jer. 23:30-32; Gal. 1:8; Rev. 21:18-19). New Testament history suggests that the varous sign-gifts, including the gift of tongues, were no longer in use after the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, and that the gifts of knowledge and prophecy were set aside after the Book of Revelation was completed about A.D. 90. Thus, only the Apostle John lived to see the coming of “that which is perfect” (I Cor. 13:10), namely, the completed Bible. The Bible is perfect, because no one before John wrote the final chapter had anything more than a “part” of the truth (I Cor. 13:9; Heb. 1:1). For someone now, in this superstructure phase of Church history, to claim a new revelation from God would be a colossal step backward and downward to the “pre-perfect” foundation phase. Instantly, all of our Bibles would be incomplete! None of us could teach or preach authoritatively and effectively again, until, like Apollos, we could find someone to expound to us “the way of God more accurately” (Acts 18:26).

    III. Christ’s Miracles Were Unique
    If God is indeed giving to certain men the power to perform healing miracles today, why are there so few of them, and why are their powers so limited, and why are the results so doubtful? By contrast, the miracles of Christ and His apostles were fantastically abundant, utterly spectacular, and totally undeniable. Let us consider each of these in more detail. First, our Lord’s miracles were abundant. The Gospel narratives make it quite clear that Christ healed vast numbers of people in many parts of Palestine and over a period of several years (cf. Matt. 14:14; Luke 6:19, etc.). With regard to the apostles, see Acts 5:12-16; 19:11-12. But Church history since the days of the apostles, even in times of great revival and reformation, has not been characterized by physical miracles including healings (see Appendix). Second, our Lord’s healing works were spectacular in nature. Consider the healing of the man born blind (John 9:32); the replacement and healing of a man’s amputated ear (Luke 22:50); and the immediate and complete resuscitation to mortal life of a man who was not only dead but who had been decomposing in a tomb for more than half a week (John 11). By contrast, modern so-called faith-healers concentrate on those types of physical ailments that are functional rather than organic, and which can more easily be explained as psychotherapeutic rather than genuinely supernatural (for an excellent analyis of this entire problem, see Edmunds and Scorer, Some Thoughts On Faith Healing, The Tyndale Press, 39 Bedford Square, London W.C. 1, 1956).
    In the third place, our Lord’s miracles were undeniaable. Note, for example, the testimonies of such unregenerate men as Nicodemus (John 3:2) and the chief priests (John 11:47; Acts 4:16). In stark contrast to the present situation, no one who saw the Lord Jesus Christ at work ever questioned the completely supernatural character of His healing miracles. The debate was centered entirely on the issue of whether God or Satan was the source of His power (Matt. 12:24). The question we must ask, in the light of this fact, is not whether God still has the power to perform those kinds of miracles today, but whether it is His plan. For we may be perfectly sure that if it were His plan to do now exactly what He did through certain men nineteen centuries ago, there would be no modern day deniers of the reality of miracles, even as there were none in Jesus’ day!

    IV. Is God Healing Sick People Today?
    It is my firm conviction that God is healing some sick Christians today (and I have seen this happen twice in my own family), but in a very different way than He did when Christ was here, and for a very different purpose. It is true that God occasionally raises up some desperately sick Christians to a continued life of worship and service; but He never does so through a faith-healer, and He never does so in such a spectacular way that godless men are absoluely forced to admit that a genuine miracle occurred.
    God’s basic provision and pattern for the healing of Christians is outlined in James 5:13-16. Note carefully, in the first place, that the sick Christian asks for “the elders of the church” to come to him. He does not request to be carried to a miracle-healer! Secondly, God does not promise immediate and spectacular healing, nor does He exclude recuperation processes or the help of doctors and medicines. It is a “family affair,” and is not for “show.” In other words, it is not intended to serve as a sign to Israel or the unbelieving Gentile world that God is real. Its purpose is to encourage Christians to keep on trusting and serving the gracious Lord who renews their strength according to His will and purpose. In the third place, the healing is not automatically guaranteed each time! Otherwise, no Christians of the early Church would ever have died! We must therefore assume that “the prayer of faith” which was essential to the healing of sick Christians (James 5:15) was not always granted by the sovereign Lord, even as other gifts were provided only according to the will of the Holy Spirit (I Cor. 12:11).

    V. Paul Himself Lived to See the Passing of Miracles
    If faith-healers are a vital part of God’s program for the Church today, why did the Apostle Paul experience the end of such powers during his own lifetime? While at Ephesus, he healed many prople by miraculous means (Acts 19:11-12); but God chose not to answer his prayers for his own bodily healing (II Cor. 12:7-10). The reason for this is exceedingly important: “My grace is sufficient for thee; for my power is made perfect in weakness.” What, then, shall we think of a modern faith-healer who states or implies that certain saints of God must continue to be cripples because they have insufficient faith or because they have not come to the right man? Is this the reason why great Christians such as John Calvin, David Brainerd, Frances Havergal, Robert Murray McCheyne, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, and Fanny Crosby, among others, suffered many years of ill health or died young? If God’s power is made perfect in weakness, is robust physical health necessarily a measure of one’s spiritual well-being?
    Paul’s last recorded miracles were performed on the island of Malta, one of which was a remarkable fulfillment of our Lord’s promise to the apostles that they would not be hurt by deadly serpents (Acts 28:1-10; Mark 16:18). But after Paul arrived in Rome, his miracle-working powers were apparently withdrawn by the Lord. In a letter to the Philippian church, he explained how Epaphroditus, their messenger to him, had almost died from a sickness, and the clear implication is that Paul was unable to help him (Phil. 2:25-30). After a time, Paul was released from prison, visited the Aegean area again, and was brought back to Rome for execution. In his final letters to Timothy he explained that he had left Trophimus at Miletus sick (II Tim. 4:20). In fact, he knew of no faith-healer who could help Timothy either, so he recommended to him: “Be no longer a drinker of water [which was often dangerously polluted], but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities” (I Tim. 5:23).
    Thus, step by step, God was removing the scaffolding of miracles from the early church as the New Testament Scriptures were being completed and the apostles and prophets were dying off. The Holy Spirit was now focusing the eyes of Christains exclusively upon the written Word, apart from which there is no salvation or spiritual maturity (II Tim. 3:15-17). God’s plan for this age, said Paul, is for men to walk by faith rather than by sight (II Cor. 5:7), just as our Lord reminded Thomas, the sign-seeker, “blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed” (John 20:29).

    VI. Christ Clearly Implied that Physical Miracles Would be Supplanted by Even Greater Works During the Church Age
    The very night of His betrayal, the Lord Jesus told His disciples: “He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do because go unto the Father” (John 14:12). What did He mean by these words? The works that Jesus performed during His public ministry were fantastically great. Diseases were banished, demons were cast out, dead men arose, wine, bread, and fishes were created, and mighty storms were instantly calmed. But it must be recognized that each of these miracles was intentionally superficial and temporary in quality! In other words, no one was permanently helped by any of them, nor were men’s deepest needs met by such works of power! Creating food for one occasion did not automatically suply the need for later occasions. And with regard to bodily ailments, every diseased, crippled, leprous person Jesus ever healed finally died anyway—every one of them! And poor Lazarus! It is true that Jesus raised him from the dead, instantly and completely, with no convalescence needed. But later on he died again! Would you like to die twice? When Christ raises your dead body some day, would you want it to be raised to mortal life again? This was certainly no favor to Lazarus, nor was it intended to be! It was rather a mere temporary and limited sign of Christ’s power to do the greater work of resurrection to glory in the Day of the Lord (John 5:28-29).
    In this light, our Lord’s words take on new meaning: “greater works than these shall ye do because I go unto the Father.” Can there be any greater works than the miracles of Jesus? Yes, there can be and there are. When our Lord returned to heaven, the Spirit of God came ten days later and baptized the disciples into the Body of Christ. Peter then arose, preached a sermon to a vast multitude of Jews, and three thousand men experienced the spiritual miracle of regeneration in one day! This was the “greater work” because it met man’s basic need, and met it permanently. Let it be remembered that our Lord’s purpose in coming to earth was not to preach the Christian Gospel but to make such preaching possible (I Cor. 15:1-4). If He had not died as our substitute for sin, there could be no Gospel (John 12:20-24). But since His death, resurrection, and ascension, many pastors, evangelists, and missionaries have won more men to saving faith than the Son of God did, and physical miracles have not been the cause of their success.
    For a few years, the apostles and prophets did both the lesser works (sign-miracles) and the “greater works” (winning men to saving faith); but as the apostolic age reached its close the sign-miracles phased out and the “greater works’ continue as God’s basic program for the Church age, until Jesus comes again. Then, at last, our need for complete and permanent physical transformation will be met, for “the Lord Jesus Christ shall change our body of humiliation, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself” (Phil. 3:21). And there will be no debate about the genuineness of that miracle, “for the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God” (Rom. 8:19). God does care about our physical needs and sufferings; but He has a special plan and program for dealing with these needs; and continual, guaranteed healings through special men and gifts does not happen to be in that program for the Church in this superstructure stage of maturity.
    No, the Church doesn’t need new revelation from heaven today! We already have a completed Bible and the Holy Spirit of God to interpret and apply it! The Church doesn’t need more apostles to guide her through the troubled waters of this Satan-dominated world. An apostle might fail us, as Peter did at Antioch. That is why the Holy Spirit wrote, through Peter himself, that “we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place” (II Pet. 1:19). The Church doesn’t need special powers, like those which Christ promised to the apostles in Mark 16:17-18, namely, (1) to cast out demons, (2) to speak with new tongues, (3) to pick up serpents, (4) to drink deadly poisons, and (5) to heal the sick. The church doesn’t need any holy places, healing centers, faith-healers, or signs and wonders to appeal to the five senses. What the church needs is a new confrontation with the whole counsel of God, proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit with authority and love, by men who know their God and who honor his only written revelation. Then, and then only, may we expect our deepest needs to be supplied, and God’s purpose for His Church to be accomplished in our day.

  6. Durward said

    God absolutely does do miracles today. As I have sought after God the last few years, my journey has brought me around people who wholey, sincerely love Him and seek after Him. Though I once would have agreed with Dr. Legrand, now I have seen miracles myself. I know of a prayer group who meets once a week just to pray for others. I recently saw a man with a brain tumor brought in my his wife. He had had this condition for over a yr and his expression was blank – and he was just lead wherever he went. By the end of the seesion the man, who had been a song leader/musician yrs before, was singing and praising God. And his tumor, when later examined by his doctors – vanished. God can do miracles. I have seen others too. Just from this group of 20-25 prayer warriors who meet to pray for others. I don’t think any of the prople Dr L occassions to be around have the faith and so he won’t ever see this, unless he gets out of his box. If you don’t believe God will do something – He won’t! But don’t ever try to put God in a box!
    I have seen miracles, too many – just done for hurtingpeople , with no fan fare – no publicaity, just people prayer.
    And there is a gift of healing – which is one of the gifts Jesus gives thru the Spirit. I suspect that Dr L doesn’t be;lieve in the gifts of the Spirit either – be careful what box you try to put God into.
    On to the website GFA.com – Gospel for asia – see all the documented miracles done in India – God doesn’t do for us becuase we ask not , and have not faith.

    Does God give us every miracle we ask – no, for He works things for His purpose. But often He is waiting to give a miracle and He waits for us to ask! Amd if we don’t ask, how can He give?
    Yes you can know the Lord Jesus by reading His word – but sometimes it takes a miracle to reach some people – so don’t limit God!
    He says – those who truelly seek me, will find me. Be sure you are truelly seeking, before you make judgements!

  7. David LeGrand said

    DEFINITION OF MIRACLE
    Webster
    An event or effect of the physical world deviating from
    the know laws of nature, or knowledge of these laws.
    An abnormal event brought about by supernatural agency.

    Not the product of natural or spiritual laws

    Two kinds:
    1. Natural laws are intensified—flood, Samson, Egypt plagues
    2. Natural laws excluded—water fro rock, loaves and fishes, raising dead

    Out of the ordinary course of events

    Not predictable; Outside the ordinary course of cause and effect—
    regeneration, present gospel, people get saved
    If everything is miraculous, nothing is a miracle

    The craving for miracles today is not the evidence of faith but the lack of it.
    God’s every day providential care is not a miracle.

    Three notable periods of miracles recorded in the Bible
    Period of Moses
    Period of Elijah and Elisha
    Christ and the apostles

    WHY DID GOD PERFORM MIRACLES?
    TO AUTHENTICATE THE MESSAGE FROM GOD
    Not an ordinary feature of each generation to be called down at will,
    but the purpose of God to promote His truth and His SON

  8. Brian Hardie said

    Jesus said, “Don’t look around, the Kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) Jesus brought the Kingdom to us when he came and brought us back to God when He rose. We now have the Holy Ghost and the Word. Through the Holy Ghost which indwells all Believers we pray to the father in Jesus’ name and can do all the miracles of the bible, and greater than these (John 14:12. The problem is simple. WHAT IS A BELIEVER? To be a Believer, it simply means GOD IS REAL. Therefore, we can stand on the book He authored, and can “be a doer of the word, not just a hearer, deceiving ourselves” (James). IF GOD IS REAL, HE’S WATCHING!. His word says that when we BELIEVE IN OUR HEARTS that Jesus is Lord and has risen from the dead, etc… then we become new creeatures in christ-A NEW MORAL CREATURE. This is the most important miracle and happens daily. Those that have a problem with people becoming new moral creatures perhaps haven’t had the experience????? Those that don’t believe in being “filled witht he Holy Ghost” perhaps haven’t had the experience???
    You see the things of faith are fullishness to the carnel mind and we must not be so naive to think that because one goes to church they aren’t carnally minded. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH GOING TO CHURCH! With that said, i believe there are several things that you will never have to tell a saved person:
    1. Be Good
    2. Stop cussing
    3. Tithe (Give it all-new testament)
    4. Go to church
    all good things

    SALVATION IS EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!! iN FACT IF YOU TELL PEOPLE TO BE GOOD PRIOR TO SALVATION, YOU ARE MINISTERING death (2 Cor 3)

    As the Professors’ closing remarks stated, we should all preach the Gospel IN ORDER TO SAVE PEOPLE.

    p.s. I see miracles every day. I also believe that if we use these miracles for personal gain, we will stop seeing them. John 5:44 “How can you believe those that seek honor among men”.
    The great thing is this- God judges the intentions of our heart. Jesus said, “Do not judge on the appearance”.

  9. Ryan said

    Mr. Legrand,

    You say this is the meaning of a miracle…

    DEFINITION OF MIRACLE
    Webster
    An event or effect of the physical world deviating from
    the know laws of nature, or knowledge of these laws.
    An abnormal event brought about by supernatural agency.

    Not the product of natural or spiritual laws

    Then tell me that this is not a miracle…

    One of the pastors at our church has had a miracle that not anyone with our human minds could fathom… He lived with his family back in Africa, and now is currently saved from all the torment he faced daily back there… Thank the lord! But anyway, one day him and his family was walking back to the village and all of a sudden they heard the sounds of the militia that is against church’s and Christ marching toward their village, so his whole family started to pray for they were in fear of being shot… As they prayed, God blinded all of the soldiers right before his families eyes they stopped and couldn’t see their hand in front of their face… God protected and saved that village and I believe he does so in allot of other areas as well… Now Mr. L… If that is not “An event or effect of the physical world deviating from the know laws of nature, or knowledge of these laws. An abnormal event brought about by supernatural agency.” aka: miracle then I don’t know what it means… Because according to what you claim a miracle is… what happened to this mans family fits that whole description very well… Thanks to the lord, this man lives today to tell his story and has brought many people to Christ… As Durward said up above.. “Does God give us every miracle we ask – no, for He works things for His purpose. But often He is waiting to give a miracle and He waits for us to ask! And if we don’t ask, how can He give?” FOR HE WORKS THINGS FOR HIS PURPOSE!!! God Protected this great mans family for the greater of God’s will! Yes, I do agree that God DOESN’T always save and always answer everything we ask or do… Because if he did this would would be in a even greater mess then it already has become… People would all start praying for all the money they can have… never to die… etc. etc. God will not answer everything we ask for because HE IS ALL KNOWING!!! He knows what is best for us, and if he doesn’t answer something we are asking for, I believe he leads you into what he wants you to be asking for… Thank you for your time and God Bless!!

  10. Bartman said

    I’m with the guest speaker on this one. The Bible does say that satan masquerades as light. Most of these people that talk of the “miracles” can’t stop talking about that and not how Christ saved them from their wretched sins. It becomes a man-centered Gospel at this point. I think if satan can get people all distracted with miracles and signs etc, then he’s done his job, gotten people off the topic of Christ. So many of the people in the church today are so focused on what God can do for them that they lose sight of the real job of the church, to seek and save that which is lost, like Jesus did. I just went to a big church in my home town because I’ve been seeing all the fallout from people that were promised a “miracle” and it didn’t happen. Anyways, the whole 3 hour show never once talked about the Cross or our sins, the whole message was about the “healings” and other goofy stuff that Satan loves to distract us with. It was completely about what God can do for us. The message this guy taught could have been easily spoken at any secular college campus across the country without anyone being offended. I’m afraid this is what happens when people are focused on the supernatural and not the Savior. What is it that we need on the day of judgement, a healed body or a right relationship with God? Our healed body don’t mean squat on that day, righteousness does. Christ’s righteousness is imputed to our account on that day of judgement. Bottom line, stay focused on reading the Word and doing what it says, see what you can do for God, not what He can do for you all the time. God’s Word is enough, we don’t need anything else.

  11. Anonymous said

    The gullible will always have someone willing to take their money. Faith healing is an old game that counts on this aspect of human nature never changing.

    Truth Talk? Did you hear that one caller who said that he witnessed someone making the sun change course in the sky? What’s next? UFO’s for Jesus?

  12. Tom MacLeod said

    It is evident from the above posts that people’s opinions on this subject span the spectrum. I for one believe that God still performs miracles (the ones so particularly defined by Professor David LeGrand). Allow me to plead my case.

    I used to be very much a laboratory theologian in my ivory tower studying the Scriptures and trying to make sense of the world I live in. I too would define very hard lines (with equally hard opinions) and say that God absolutely does this and absolutely doesn’t do that. In fact, I felt quite comfortable with my theological system until I realized, by the grace of God, that my theological system didn’t have a strong coincidence between revealed truth of Scripture and reality.

    If you look at the testimonies of people like Bill Graham Paulose and Yun Hattaway (“Heavenly Man”) you quickly come do one of two things. You either increasingly narrow what constitutes as a miracle and set your skepticism-o-meter to 11 out of 10 … or … you reevaluate your theological system.

    I absolutely, 100% agree with Dr. John C. Whitcomb in his argument on the finalization of Scripture. God has spoken and it has been crystallized. As the one caller pointed out via the Revelation verse, there is judgement on those who add or remove from God’s word. But let us not make the mistake of placing miracles in the same category of God’s specific revelation; this is a logical mistake.

    Jesus performed miracles to establish his divinity and make known the power of God (again Dr. Whitcomb did an excellent job describing this above). But like the story that Mr. Paulose shared with the TTL listeners on Thursday concerning the 6 year old mute boy that was miraculously healed and whose first words were, “Jesus healed me!”, this was done as a sign and wonder to point to God. Or the woman who said, “I heard that the Good News was being preached, and that people were being healed. I need to know what this Good News is and I won’t let you pass until you tell me.”

    We as Americans quickly lose touch on reality. We have everything. As Roger Wiles said, “There are a lot of Americans that are going to Hell, but at least they get to live in America before they die.” When Mr. Paulose was asked why Americans don’t see God working like he claims He does in India, his reponse was, “We don’t have a plan B. We must rely on God for everything.” And he’s right. If we lose our job, there’s unemployment checks or welfare. If we can’t afford food, there’s food stamps. If we can’t put a roof over our heads, there are shelters. Americans rarely have to rely on God for anything (pardon the generalization)!

    And I would add to Paulose’s argument in the respect that over and over again, we see Jesus performing miracles and imploring them not to tell anyone. This to me says that His miracles were specific in the revealing of God to specific people at specific times in accordance to the Father’s Will. And not the contrary which is to distract our focus from God to only “what He can do for us.” I agree with Bartman when he says, “people are focused on the supernatural and not the Savior” which is why faith-healers are such a farce. At what point does “don’t tell anyone what I’ve done” and “let’s heal people en mass on TV” meet?

    I hope I haven’t been belligerent, and of course I strive to preserve the unity of saints. Always remember that God’s ways our not our ways. To God be the glory!

  13. Glynn Dunklin said

    The Question is, have
    signs, wonders, and miracles ceased. My answer is no. the rainbow is a sign between God and Noah,and
    every living creature of
    all flesh. what is a wonder, or a miracle;God
    tells us all through the
    Bible many things He has
    the power to do.So today
    whatever God does is not
    a miracle to me; it is
    just God doing His Will
    what and when He wants
    to by His Holy Spirit that covers the whole earth.this is in genisis
    1:2; Our God is an Awesome God; More than two years ago, my wife and I were in our living
    room, about 8:30 P M one
    end of our living room
    curtain that is over the window, lifted up,and five hooks came off the rod and about one foot of the curtain
    and hooks was straight out from the rod hanging
    in mid air; we looked at
    it for 30 seconds, then
    my wife put the curtain
    back on the rod. Was that a Miracle? Not to Me,that was God doing His Will by His Holy Spirit to let Me know He
    was going to do something else soon. About a year later God did do something else;
    God put Me into a sleep,
    Put words into My mouth
    for Me to Say to Him,And
    I talked to Him, and He talked to Me.A Mans voice talked to Me with
    very much authority; Everyone is put to a test all of our life.God
    told Me a message to spread. His message is not a new Revelation, I
    am just a messanger.God,
    or His Angel, told Me the Seventh Day Sabbath is Saturday; Exodus 31:12 to 17, God told Moses to speak to the Children of Israel. Verse 13 Surely My Sabbaths You Shall Keep,
    For it is a Sign between
    Me and You Throught Your Generations, that you may know I am the Lord who Sanctifies You;
    Versa 15 Work shall be done for six days,But the seventh is the Sabbath of rest,Holy to the Lord; Whoever does any work on the Sabbath Day, He Shall Surely be put to death Verse 16 Therefore the Children of Israel Shall Keep the
    Sabbath, to observe the
    Sabbath throught their generations as a Perpetual Covenant.
    This is God’s Fourth commandment,and also a Covenant.God does Not Break Covenants.
    I told God we pollute our air, and water. God said to Me, My Angels Can Not Breathe, They call in Sick; I need All
    My Angels every Day;
    In 91 Our Daughter passed away with Cancer.
    The day of Her Funeral,God put the Biggest, Most Beautiful
    Rainbow in the Sky almost straight over our heads. We could see the mist falling through
    the trees no more than 75 yards from us. I told God how Bautiful His Rainbow was. God said to Me, Boy, do you
    know how many of My Angels it took to Make that Rainbow? I need All of My Angels To Do Other Things, I Am Tired Of Coming Down There and Getting You Out Of Trouble. We talked a little longer;
    As we were talking, God
    would say, I will Give you a mark,or a half mark,or a quarter mark on different things I would say to Him. Then I
    ask God how am I doing on My Test? God Said, You will have to wait until the end to find out;
    God uses people today to
    get messages to His people. God used Daniel, and many other.
    What has almost ceased, is man believing God, and doing All of God’s commandments,Covenants,
    Laws; People Open your Ears, and Hear God’s Message. We Must Turn Back To God, and put all
    our Faith, and Trust in
    God, and Not In Man’s
    Doctrine. Read Your Bible. I Believe God, And Do No Work, Or Pleasure On His Sabbath,
    Which is Saturday.1 John
    2:4 He Who Says I Know Him,And Does Not Keep His Commandments Is A Liar, And the truth is not in Him. Matthew 12:40 For as Jonah was Three Days, and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Think About this
    scripture. Are Most All
    Churches saying Jesus is a Liar; Most All Churches today teach Jesus was Crucified on good friday, and was resurrected at Sunrise on Easter Sunday. Something is wrong. Jesus would be in His Tomb ONLY TWO NIGHTS, AND ONE DAY. Wake Up America Read Your Bible;
    If we call God A Liar, is Our name in His Lams Book Of Life? The Gospel Jesus Taught Is The Kingdom Of God Is At Hand. Jesus Is Lord Of Lords, and King of Kings, Jesus is Coming Back To Earth To Set Up His Kingdom Of God And Be Ruler Over All The Earth. No Man on Earth
    Knows If Anyone’s Name Is In The Book Of Life.
    We Need To Turn To God.
    Stop Polluting Our Air, And Water. If We Obey God’s Word, And Do No Work or Pleasure On Gods
    Sabbath, Saturday, Think How much fuel and
    oil that would be saved on that one day each week; Millions of gallons, and the price would go down, and think how much less pollution would be put into God’s Air, Then His
    Angels Could Breathe Better. Our Eternal Life
    Is Is Our Choise To Make; We Need To Put Our Faith In God, Not Man; I Am Nothing But A Man God is Using to Get His Message Out. Listen To God. Many People Tell
    Me that Saturday is the
    Jewish Sabbath..If this is True, Then God Is The GOD OF ONLY THE JEWS. NO God is the God of Gentiles, Jews, Greek
    God Gave The Ten Commandments To All Twelve Tribes Of The Children Of Israel. The
    word Jew Was Not in the Bible until Much Later.
    READ YOUR BIBLE.

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