Welcome to TruthTalkLive.com!

Today’s Issues, From a Biblical Perspective!

Today’s Guest: Tony Campolo

Posted by truthtalklive on February 16, 2007

Visit Tony’s Site – Do you agree or disagree?

More related articles:
HERE
HERE
HERE

Advertisements

22 Responses to “Today’s Guest: Tony Campolo”

  1. Brad said

    I used to have some respect for Tony’s teachings, but no more, after hearing him the first time on your show and after hearing it air again on Friday.

    He is DEAD WRONG about some of his beliefs. He and his wife disagree on Romans chapter 1. When 2 people disagree on how a Scripture should be interpreted, there are only 2 possibilities – either they’re both wrong, or one is wrong and one is right. They can’t BOTH be right, b/c they’re interpreting Scripture completely opposite.

    We have a Christian who won’t go so far as to say that homosexuality (not just the act, but the orientation) is sinful, and won’t go so far as to say that they WEREN’T created that way, leaving open the possibility that God did create some with a homosexual orientation, which is mind-boggling how he comes up with that conclusion.

    I’d steer clear of this guy. I’ve lost all respect.

  2. republicanatic said

    I agree. This guy is practically leading a cult. I don’t think enough debate on the air took place to effectively expose this guy of his shortcomings.

  3. Anonymous said

    Queers are born that way. Get over it. What is mind boggling is that some people can’t accept that.

    Stu (or whoever) can say “thousands” of queers have been “cured” or “healed” or whatever but it ain’t so.

    You rightwingers have a deep, deep insecurity about homosexuality that manifests itself in statements like “this guy is practically leading a cult”.

    What do you call the cult that you belong to?

    Cast that stone!

  4. republicanatic said

    i don’t believe that terminology is appropriate for this blog…i would never use the word “queer”…in fact i would not be surprised if these comments get yanked… check the facts on homosexuals who have turned back to God before you post….it happens a lot….and by the way, the Bible is the Truth and the Truth (how much more proof do you need) says that homosexuality is a sin, plain and simple….God doesn’t hate homosexuals, he hates the lifestyle they’ve chosen.

  5. Brad said

    “Queers are born that way. Get over it. What is mind boggling is that some people can’t accept that.”

    What is your proof, since you clearly don’t hold to Biblical beliefs on the matter? God made all people, and he created us with sinful natures, not sinful. Thus, we are all born with the propensity to sin (whether that sin is homosexuality, murder, theft, gossip, etc…), but not born AS a homosexual, a murderer, a thief, etc…

    “Stu (or whoever) can say “thousands” of queers have been “cured” or “healed” or whatever but it ain’t so.”

    Again, your proof? What about the many former homosexuals who will openly admit to having been “cured” of that sin, that they no longer even have those desires? How do you so quickly discount that?

    “You rightwingers have a deep, deep insecurity about homosexuality that manifests itself in statements like “this guy is practically leading a cult”.”

    No, I don’t say this b/c I’m insecure about homosexuality. I just know that from a Biblical point of view, it is a sin. And while I didn’t say myself that Campolo is “leading a cult”, the reason some might say that is b/c he associates himself with mainline Christianity yet does not have beliefs that hold 100% to the Bible, which is a dangerous viewpoint to have.

    “What do you call the cult that you belong to?

    Cast that stone!”

    Who is casting a stone? I myself haven’t judged anyone to anywhere. The Bible (and thus God) gives clear instructions on what sin is and what you must do to receive salvation. It also lays out a clear reward for salvation (Heaven), and a clear penalty for the opposite (hell). To live a knowingly sinful life is to refuse the grace that God offers through His Son Jesus Christ, and that is to knowingly accept the penalty described. People who do so judge themselves – they don’t need anyone’s help. God simply grants their wish at the end of their life.

  6. republicanatic said

    brad is much better with words than i am, but he’s absolutely 100% right on target!

  7. Anonymous said

    “What about the many former homosexuals who will openly admit to having been “cured” of that sin, that they no longer even have those desires? How do you so quickly discount that?”

    They are not being honest.

    “i don’t believe that terminology is appropriate for this blog…i would never use the word “queer” “

    Most of the gay people I have known referred to themselves as queers.

    “And while I didn’t say myself that Campolo is “leading a cult”, the reason some might say that is b/c he associates himself with mainline Christianity yet does not have beliefs that hold 100% to the Bible, which is a dangerous viewpoint to have.”

    The Bible is wrong about lots of things.

  8. Brad said

    Wow, Anonymous, you’re very convincing.

    So to the many former homosexuals who say they’ve been cured, rather than take them at their word (which I am doing by referencing them), you say they’re lying. I’m glad you’ve been able to peer into their heart of hearts and glean information that nobody else would know.

    As to the slang word for homosexuals which some on here have used (though I myself have not, as you can plainly see), you imply that it’s OK b/c the sample of homosexuals you know seems OK with it, therefore all must be. Very good.

    And the common comeback to a Biblical argument against homosexuality is the one you state at the end: “the Bible is wrong about lots of things.”

    Would you mind telling me and some of the other interested readers what the Bible is wrong about, and your proof for why it is wrong? This means that it can’t be wrong just b/c you disagree with it, b/c then your only proof is your feelings, which is just your point of view. I mean give some proof, factual proof, as to where the Bible is wrong. I’d love to discuss that at length with you.

  9. republicanatic said

    Yes, Anonymous….please, convince us. Show us the proof that you base your beliefs on.

  10. Anonymous said

    Brad, that’s the way I see it.

    You guys are fundamentalists (right?) and you look at the Bible differently than I do. I don’t read it expecting it to be infallable.

    I am skeptical of anyone who says they have been miraculously “healed” of any ailment or disease. But is being homosexual a disease? It occurs naturally in human beings. You can’t be “healed” if you aren’t sick!

    The gays I know would not be offended by my referring to them as queers. But they are my friends and would realize that I say that lovingly. I apologize sincerely if I have offended anyone here.

  11. republicanatic said

    I don’t think anyone here is offended. The word “queer” just carries some baggage that may be deemed as inappropriate for this forum. Also, it’s OK to disagree. We’re just trying to understand where you’re coming from with all these proclamations. If we’re to understand your side, surely you can understand ours. Are you a Christian?

  12. Anonymous said

    “I mean give some proof, factual proof, as to where the Bible is wrong.”

    You know, I just don’t put as much thought into this as you appear to. How about this: we wait for a thread about Biblical Inerrancy to come up before we start that argument? I’ll try to remember to point out where you guys are wrong! (just kidding!)

    Tony Campolo sounded like he was reading the same Bible as we all do. Why does he come to a different conclusion about gays being “healed” than you do?

    Is he not a Christian? Am I not a Christian? If I say that the Bible has errors how does it change my understanding of being a Christian?

    I think we can disagree on the what the Bible means without losing our identity as Christians.

    Paul didn’t have the Bible that we do. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John didn’t have the Bible that we do.

    Were they not Christians?

    What do all Christians have in common?

    We all believe that Jesus came and died for our sins. We can believe that without ever having read the Bible.

    Anyways, I think being queer is a natural thing for a certain percentage of us. That opinion may or may not be in the Bible.

  13. Willie said

    Brad wrote:
    “God made all people, and he created us with sinful natures, not sinful.”

    You start out right, brother, but get a little skewed there.

    Genesis 1:27: “And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”

    Yes, he made man and woman, specifically Adam and Even, in His own image. But let’s not think too highly of ourselves … read a few chapters later …

    Genesis 5:3 says: “And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.”

    So whose image were Adam’s children made in? Yes, read the Bible there — they are in Adam’s likeness and image.

    Thus you will realize that it was NOT God that created us with sinful natures, but rather we inherited that from Adam. Yes God created Adam perfect and with the ability to choose NOT to be if he so desire, and the ability to procreate. Adam chose NOT to be perfect, but to be sinful instead, thus procreating sinners. A long time later, God begat a perfect man (the “second Adam”) with the same choice. He chose to remain perfect. And because of that, God has given us the option to conform to the image and likeness of Christ’s perfection, spiritually.

    2 Corinthians 4:4 (“…Christ, who is the image of God…”) and other verses tell us about this.

    You must understand that simply because God created Adam & Eve in his own image, it does not follow that all Adam & Eve’s offspring, and the offspring of their offspring were also perfect in God’s image. In fact, I think that’s why we’re told right up front in Genesis that Adam’s children were begotten in Adam’s image … not God’s … so we’d know that what we see today is NOT God’s doing, but a result of man’s rebellion against God.

    You might think this is heresy, but study it out before judging, OK? The truth is that it does not matter whether a person is born with a homosexual inclination, or their environment impacts them in such a way to make them think they were born that way. In either case, they NEED a savior, they NEED their sins to be forgiven, and they NEED to be conformed to the image of Christ, who is the image of God.

    Does someone who feels they were born that way have to indulge in what God calls sin? Absolutely not. It’s just like alcoholism, or self-righteousness, or lying, or gluttony, or any other sin. Yes, you may feel you have an uncontrollable natural desire to practice it … but that’s where the POWER OF GOD will make a difference in your life.

    I urge each of you to allow the Holy Spirit to control your lives in such a way as to help you OVERCOME the natural bent in your lives towards sinning, and instead live your life in service to God in such a way that HE will receive all the glory and honor.

    Trust me … when there is so much good you are doing for the glory of God, you’ll have no time to consider turning back to the old sinful ways you used to follow.

    PRAISE GOD!

  14. Brad said

    “Brad, that’s the way I see it.”

    But it doesn’t matter how WE see it, based on our feelings, it matters what the Bible ACTUALLY meant. Some people choose to take their feelings and say that’s what the Bible meant; I take what the Bible meant, and make it my feelings.

    “You guys are fundamentalists (right?) and you look at the Bible differently than I do. I don’t read it expecting it to be infallable.”

    Then you’re reading it incorrectly. You can’t just believe parts of the Bible – you either believe it, ALL of it, or you don’t. B/c the Bible says that God doesn’t lie (Titus), and also says that all Scripture is inspired by God (1 Timothy); if that’s the case, there is nothing fallible in the Bible. So it’s a logical impossibility to say you believe the Bible is fallible, b/c then you really don’t believe the Bible.

    “I am skeptical of anyone who says they have been miraculously “healed” of any ailment or disease. But is being homosexual a disease? It occurs naturally in human beings. You can’t be “healed” if you aren’t sick!”

    Again, I ask for your proof, for the 3rd time. Doesn’t matter what you’re skeptical of, that’s just your opinion. God didn’t create people homosexual, any more than He created people murderers or rapists. We have the propensity to sin, but can choose not to do so.

    “The gays I know would not be offended by my referring to them as queers. But they are my friends and would realize that I say that lovingly. I apologize sincerely if I have offended anyone here.”

    It doesn’t offend me, b/c I’m not homosexual. I just think it’s a degrading term to use.

  15. Brad said

    “You know, I just don’t put as much thought into this as you appear to.”

    Maybe that’s part of the problem, don’t you think? A little more study as to what the Bible ACTUALLY teaches on this subject would be helpful for you.

    “How about this: we wait for a thread about Biblical Inerrancy to come up before we start that argument? I’ll try to remember to point out where you guys are wrong! (just kidding!)”

    I’m all for a thread on that, at anytime.

    “Tony Campolo sounded like he was reading the same Bible as we all do. Why does he come to a different conclusion about gays being “healed” than you do?”

    Many people “read” the same Bible, but interpretations are different. For Scripture, there is one correct interpretation, and I believe it is possible, with much prayer and study, to ascertain that. The correct interpretation would be what God, through the various writers, was conveying to us; it is NOT whatever we want it to say, which is how many people like to “interpret” the Bible today.

    “Is he not a Christian? Am I not a Christian? If I say that the Bible has errors how does it change my understanding of being a Christian?”

    I can’t speak as to anyone’s true saving faith, as I can’t see their heart as God can. All we have to look at as humans are people’s actions and words, and line them up with Scripture to see if they coincide. When they don’t, the waters are muddied. I don’t know whether you are a Christian or not – the fact that you not only don’t know the Bible’s teachings, but question its infallibility, leaves me with serious doubts.

    “I think we can disagree on the what the Bible means without losing our identity as Christians.”

    To a degree, I would tend to agree with this, but I think it is solely dependent on what we’re disagreeing about. We can’t just say that we can all disagree about everything. At some point, somebody’s wrong.

    “Anyways, I think being queer is a natural thing for a certain percentage of us. That opinion may or may not be in the Bible.”

    It’s not. Read it and study it and you’ll see.

  16. Brad said

    Willie,

    You are right, God did create Adam in his own image. But realize that Adam did have the propensity to sin, and the ability, as proven by the fact that he DID sin. And every human after that, from Seth down to me and you, also has the same ability and propensity to sin.

    I did not mean to imply that God made us perfect, or that God made us sinful, only that He made us with the propensity and ability to sin. I’m not sure that can be debated.

    What that means is that God didn’t MAKE people homosexual, or MAKE people murderers or rapists or child molesters, but engrained in our being is the ability to choose right from wrong, to sin or not to sin, and those lifestyles and sinful actions are merely the result of choosing to sin rather than not to sin.

  17. Jesus_Freak said

    Anonymous said…

    “Gays((actual word censored)) are born that way. Get over it. What is mind boggling is that some people can’t accept that.”

    He is right, in a way. We were all born into sin, starting with Adam.

    “But since the creation of the world , God’s invisible qualities and divine nature– have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so MEN ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.”(Romans 1:20 NIV, emphasis added)
    Paul put it on a personal note.

    “We know that the law is spiritual, but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. For what I want to do not do what I want to do, but what I hate to do. As it is, it is no longer I myself that do it, but it is sin living in me.”(Romans 7:14-15 NIV)

    Paul then goes on to talk about bondage toward sin.
    I do not think
    people born homosexual, but I do think that homosexuality comes from an ignorant and sinful heart.

    ” Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the
    GLORY of the IMMORTAL GOD and for images made to look like mortal man
    and birds and animals and reptiles.” (romans 1:22, emphasis added)

    “Therefore GOD GAVE THEM OVER(meaning he let them rebel) to the SINFUL desires of their hearts
    to SEXUAL IMPURITY and the degrading of their bodies with ONE ANOTHER.”(romans 1:24, emphasis added)

    Romans 1:26 says: “Because of this God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust with one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”

    I think that is self explanatory, don’t you? Now I know there are several factors such as genetic disorders that make people more susceptible to this sin than others, but the same goes for drunkenness.

    I believe with all my heart that a person isn’t homosexual unless he or she engages in homosexuality.

  18. Brad said

    Jesus_Freak,

    When you reference Romans 1:20, just to be clear, the reference to men being without excuse is meant to show that no person escapes the law of God, that everyone, regardless of where they lived or who they talked to, will be judged the same, that they are without excuse because God has revealed Himself in nature to them in enough light for them to accept salvation. Just wanted to be clear.

    You said “I do not think
    people born homosexual, but I do think that homosexuality comes from an ignorant and sinful heart.”

    And I fully agree with you on this one. It is the result of choosing to sin (b/c you want to, not b/c you were “born that way” or you “can’t help it”), rather than choosing not to sin.

    You also say “I believe with all my heart that a person isn’t homosexual unless he or she engages in homosexuality.”

    Which I would disagree with. What’s the definition of homosexual? Would it not be “to be attracted to those of the same sex?” And if a person is attracted to them, at some point they will have thoughts and feelings that they either will (most likely) or or won’t act upon, and if they’re not acting upon them, they are most likely thinking about it, which according to the Bible is as much sin as the act itself. Homosexual acts are just a result of the sin, which is homosexuality itself.

  19. Anonymous said

    “For Scripture, there is one correct interpretation…”(Brad)

    And the correct one would be your interpretation, right?

    “Then you’re reading it incorrectly.” (Brad)

    Thanks for setting me straight, but I am going to continue to think for myself.

    “Again, I ask for your proof, for the 3rd time.”

    It is you guys who insist that miracles have occurred. The burden of proof is on you.

    I think that you are taking this more seriously than I do, so I’ll let you have the last word, but for my part I’ll say that I believe gays are no more guilty of being sinful than anyone else. We all have sinned and fall short of the…wait a minute, didn’t I read that somewhere? Did I misinterpret that, too?

  20. Brad said

    “For Scripture, there is one correct interpretation…”(Brad)

    “And the correct one would be your interpretation, right?” (Anonymous)

    The correct interpretation is the one that is arrived at through hours of studying and praying, interpreting the Bible in light of the entire Bible, not just verse by verse or certain sections at a time. And I’m not implying, and never have implied, that it is correct only b/c I myself said so. There are countless others who arrive at the same conclusions I do. For those who want to say that it is arrogant to say that I hold to the correct interpretation of the Bible, that’s fine – but I believe that we can know what the Bible truly says. God didn’t design it to be a mystery to us, or to have 7 different meanings to 7 different people, but a single meaning for all mankind.

    “Then you’re reading it incorrectly.” (Brad)

    “Thanks for setting me straight, but I am going to continue to think for myself.” (Anonymous)

    That’s where you’re getting tripped up. It’s OK to think for yourself (heck, who doesn’t), but you shouldn’t have opinions that run contrary to Scripture’s teachings, and when opinions and Scripture don’t coincide with each other, it is the opinions which should be changed, not the meaning of Scripture to fit your opinions.

    “Again, I ask for your proof, for the 3rd time.”

    “It is you guys who insist that miracles have occurred. The burden of proof is on you.” (Anonymous)

    Common response to a request for proof. Which means you have none, and you know it. The only reason I insist that miracles have and do occur is b/c the Bible says so, and I believe the Bible to be completely infallible, as it says it is. If you don’t, and don’t follow it, it is not me who will suffer for that.

    “I think that you are taking this more seriously than I do, so I’ll let you have the last word, but for my part I’ll say that I believe gays are no more guilty of being sinful than anyone else. We all have sinned and fall short of the…wait a minute, didn’t I read that somewhere? Did I misinterpret that, too?” (Anonymous)

    I am taking it more seriously than you – you should look into doing the same. I never, anywhere, said that gays are MORE guilty of being sinful than anyone else. If you think I have, please direct me to where I said that. And yes, Rom. 3:23 says exactly what you say it does – “we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” My point is that homosexuality is a sin that can be helped, b/c it is a choice by the person to lead a sinful lifestyle, just as murder is a choice by the murderer to commit, and theft is a choice by the thief to commit. None of those have been “forced” to do anything, or have no choice b/c they were “born that way.” It is a sinful choice, derived from the heart’s propensity to sin and man’s inability to say no. Saying they were “born that way” is just an excuse used to justify a sinful lifestyle.

    Again, nobody’s sins affect my eternal destination, as I am not judged for anyone else’s sins but my own. But it is important for people to realize that certain actions which society in general says are OK or “can’t be helped” are really not OK, and are sinful, and if continued in willingly, will result in separation from God. That’s the bottom line.

  21. Anonymous said

    Well, I know that I said you had the last word but I really can’t let you slide on this:

    “There are countless others who arrive at the same conclusions I do.”

    No there aren’t. Fundamentalists and evangelicals like you are a minority amongst Christians.

    “For those who want to say that it is arrogant to say that I hold to the correct interpretation of the Bible, that’s fine – but I believe that we can know what the Bible truly says.”

    I can read just as good you can. I am willing to admit that I don’t understand it all. I don’t know you, but you seem to be a know it all. If that is arrogance, well, then enjoy!

    “God didn’t design it to be a mystery to us, or to have 7 different meanings to 7 different people, but a single meaning for all mankind.”

    And you have the understanding that I lack, eh?

    I’m done. Talk amongst yourselves.

  22. Brad said

    “No there aren’t. Fundamentalists and evangelicals like you are a minority amongst Christians.”

    Where is your data? I reference people and groups I specifically know about who agree with me. Remember, you only hear about the plane crashes, not the 99.99% of successful plane landings – the same is true with religion, and Christianity in general. You won’t hear from the silent majority, only those who choose to speak. It just so happens that the majority of those who choose to speak are NOT the fundamentalist evangelicals, but the left-leaners. Which is unfortunate.

    “I can read just as good you can. I am willing to admit that I don’t understand it all. I don’t know you, but you seem to be a know it all. If that is arrogance, well, then enjoy!”

    I never said I understand everything, only that the beliefs I hold on this matter are correct and Biblically-based. And while you admit that you don’t understand it all, what I am telling you is that you can understand more than you do, if you would take the time to truly read through the Scriptures and pray that God reveal the meaning to you, through your studies, through others, through the Holy Spirit, etc… We can know more than we think we can about the Bible. God didn’t intend for it to be a mystery, but the Bible does say that it is foolishness to those who don’t believe.

    “And you have the understanding that I lack, eh?”

    In some ways, yes, I do, not b/c I’m smarter, but b/c I’ve made it important enough to study it and know what God is saying to us. You yourself have stated more than once on here that others take it more seriously than you do. Perhaps if you took it more seriously, and decided that you truly wanted to know and understand what God’s Word says and means, you would understand.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

 
%d bloggers like this: