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Today’s Issues, From a Biblical Perspective!

Today’s Guest: Pastor David McGee!

Posted by truthtalklive on January 24, 2007

Learn more about Pastor McGee by visiting Reach the Triad!

Question: Is church membership biblical???

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26 Responses to “Today’s Guest: Pastor David McGee!”

  1. Anonymous said

    I was wondering if my dog can be baptized?

  2. Anonymous said

    I was wondering how your guest handles Biblical church discipline and congregational voting without an organized church membership roll.

  3. Anonymous said

    The early Christians did say under whom they sat but Paul admonished them for saying, “I am a follower of Paul because he baptised me..” and such. Eric and Pastor McGee are correct, nowhere in the bible does it teach that and there is nothing wrong with a person wanting to join but there is something wrong for a church to require it. We are all the body of Christ and are part of His Church. That is the greatest membership and that should be the focus. I highly doubt that Jesus will say, “Well done thou faithful servant you joined a carnal church right after joining my spiritual church.” Stu, you are off the mark here and we should not be divided on this. If a church hinders a person from serving in the church because of the legalism of not being on the roster then that church is not better than the scribes and Pharisees.

  4. Anonymous said

    In Kernersville, three churches had steeples and sometimes bats would come to live in the steeples. So the three ministers got together to talk about how to get rid of the bats in the belfry.

    The Lutheran minister said, “Ah, it’s a terrible problem. We played loud music and even shot off guns to scare them. They flew out but they came right back the next day. We can’t get rid of them.”

    The Methodist minister said, “We got rid of the bats for a longer than that. We started some real smoky fires outside and we got big fans and blew the smoke up on the steeple. The bats left and didn’t come back for a month.”

    The Baptist minister said, “We did better than that. I went up in the steeple, baptized those bats, put them on the membership role and we haven’t seen them since!”

    Pastor David is right.

  5. Anonymous said

    I believe that membership in the local church is the visible expression of membership in the invisible church. As I listened to Pastor Dave there were two things coming to light. First, he does have membeship, he simply has accomodated the “uncommitted” element of our culture. Secondly, he made an “off the cuff” comment that actually was probably the core issue. He said, “It seems to be working.” Thus the issue seems to be pragmatism rather than biblicism.

  6. Anonymous said

    Anonymous said…
    The early Christians did say under whom they sat but Paul admonished them for saying, “I am a follower of Paul because he baptised me..” and such. Eric and Pastor McGee are correct, nowhere in the bible does it teach that and there is nothing wrong with a person wanting to join but there is something wrong for a church to require it. We are all the body of Christ and are part of His Church. That is the greatest membership and that should be the focus. I highly doubt that Jesus will say, “Well done thou faithful servant you joined a carnal church right after joining my spiritual church.” Stu, you are off the mark here and we should not be divided on this. If a church hinders a person from serving in the church because of the legalism of not being on the roster then that church is not better than the scribes and Pharisees.

    1/24/2007 5:58 PM

    I was about to bring up these very points. We are not to be divided in the body of Christ.
    Legalisim and denominations divide the Church against itself.

  7. Anonymous said

    so i guess the issue isn’t that it’s WRONG to be a church member, it’s whether or not your active…right?

  8. Anonymous said

    Odd comment …

    “I believe that membership in the local church is the visible expression of membership in the invisible church.”

    So you’re saying what you believe actually means it’s true … interesting doctrine!

    “… he does have membership …”

    huh?????

    “… he simply has accomodated the uncommitted element of our culture.”

    I didn’t hear that at all. I DID hear that since it’s not in the Bible, and it can become a source of false security and divisiveness in the body of Christ, that he does not participate in the practice.

    Speaking of which … please come back and post a percentage for us as David did. What percentage of your church MEMBERS actively SERVE in a productive ministry of the church for at least 2 hours every week (not counting warming pews)?

    “He said, ‘It seems to be working.’

    It was an amazing understatement, not a “sign of a core issue” — didn’t you hear? He’s simply teaching God’s Word, verse-by-verse, every week. People get saved, become disciples (actively serve God), bring others in, they get saved, and the cycle repeats.

    It’s obvious that it’s God and not a guilt trip that is causing the growth. Pastor David and those like him are focusing on growing big Christians, not on growing big churches.

    PRAISE GOD!!!!

  9. faithplusnothing said

    I can’t believe you are doing another incredible show right after the one yesterday. God is so good!!! I have been saved for only a couple of years and I have been looking for a church just like Pastor McGee’s. I currently attend a baptist church but I don’t consider myself a baptist. I don’t think I should have to be baptized to join a church but I did anyway because I so longed to learn more about the great Savior I serve. I so long for the church he pastors. If you are attending faithfully, serving within, learning bible truths, and giving an offering faithfully, what does it matter whether your name is on a roll or not. Just tonight my pastor was outraged that some baptist churches go a year without baptizing even one person! So what!!! I sit there wondering why I am so starved for the word of God.

  10. Anonymous said

    Hi everyone. I would recommend everyone to listen to this sermon by Mark Dever titled ‘Membership Matters’

    http://www.sbts.edu/resources/Audio_Resources/Special_Speakers.aspx#Dever

    and also the articles offered at

    http://www.9marks.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID314526|CHID598016|CIID1641682,00.html

    and lastly…

    http://marks.9marks.org/Mark6

    this last one is probably the best of all, you can page through the short articles at the bottom. Happy reading!

    In Christ,
    rj

  11. Anonymous said

    Sorry the links got lost in my earler post, hope this works better.. you may have to copy several lines….

    http://www.sbts.edu/resources/
    Audio_Resources/Special_Speakers
    .aspx#Dever

    and

    http://www.9marks.org/partner/
    Article_Display_Page/
    0,,PTID314526|CHID598016|
    CIID1641682,00.html

    remember to copy all the lines together with no spaces if your interested.

    In Christ,
    rj

  12. VideoBob2000 said

    Interesting links, RJ. And each provides some very excellent teachings on how to handle relationships among local believers. It’s unfortunate that those presentations make the erroneous assumption that the holy scriptures referenced are even vaguely related to what we see today as ‘membership’ in various local assemblies and denominations.

    Each one seems to imply that if someone is a ‘member’ of ‘our church’ that we have a duty to encourage him and also to discipline him. BUT … what if he’s NOT ‘our’ member, but merely a fellow believer … or worse yet … what if he’s a ‘member’ of someone else’s (say, a ‘competing’) congregation? Then it’s OK to kick them when they’re down? Or worse yet … ignore them — thinking smugly, “my, my … I can’t believe those people at that church over there don’t do something about that person — he’s a ‘member’ there, you know!”

    God forbid such sin would manifest itself in ANY believer’s heart and life!

    Concerned callers to Stu’s show when Pastor David was on seem to focus on such things as accountability, service, loving each other, church policy, and commitment of believers. After having observed these elements and others for over a year in Calvary Chapel of the Triad, I must conclude that CCoT handles these issues at least as good, and in most cases, much better, and more biblically, than any other church I’ve observed.

    No, it’s certainly not the perfect church, as David is so fond of saying. If it were, I’d certainly ruin it by walking in the front door. But there’s no doubt that this is one church that has a driving desire to teach all the truth of God’s Word, and reach those who are lost with the Word of God.

    Some interesting links include:
    Calvary Chapel Distinctives
    Answers for Today
    Calvinism, Arminianism and The Word of God
    Charisma vs. Charismania

    God bless you.

    Bob

  13. Anonymous said

    We can baptize your dog. Now cats…they are much harder. This is Pastor David of Calvary Chapel of the Triad. I appreciate the supporting responses and would like to respond to the two dissenting. To the one on congregational voting. We don’t do it. That is another unscriptural practice. The only place you see congregational voting is when the children of Israel voted to build the golden calf and wanted to go back to Egypt. I have not ‘accomodated the uncommitted’ I have challenged them to serve. I have many times on many occcasions told people in order to be a disicple you need to serve the Lord and others. Many think once they become members they dont have to do anything else…that is sad. Again it is a biblical issue because you do not see it in the Bible. In your response you neglect to reply to the ‘core issue’ because you can’t. Please respond with chapter and verse reference. Isn’t that part of the way the Catholic church got so far a field…it’s not in there but we think…etc. Thanks Stu for providing a forum for free discussion without pre-digested thoughts. I think you are right…we need a reformation or a revolution. Sola Scriptura. Thanks. PD

  14. Anonymous said

    Pastor David again here. I was just thinking of the serious flaw in the logic in the one responses. He said first I do have membership and I have just accomodated the uncommitted element of our culture. Which one is it? Do I have it or am I accomodating? Your argument suggests I am doing both which totally deflates your debate. Secondly ‘it is working’ is why I am doing this? There is an incredible flaw in your logic and presents your own bias in the issue. I had to start doing it before it started working so… obviously there has to be another outside issue. Again the issue is a biblical one. The Bible does in fact work. Thanks again for the discussion gang. Living to tell what He died to say,
    PD

  15. Anonymous said

    Stu, one of your callers spoke of how he and his wife were a part of a local church. They wanted to be active in the church but were not allowed to do so because they did not believe in joining. You berated him for just being an inactive part of the congregation when he could join and be active for the church. You did this even after he spoke of how he and his wife were very active in ministry outside of the bounds of this local church. I guess my question to you is how you arrived at your conclusion?

  16. Anonymous said

    … You did this even after he spoke of how he and his wife were very active in ministry outside of the bounds of this local church…

    This is part of the brainwashing so common in many of today’s “churches” that we see: If you are not serving in “MY” church, or traveling with or giving to missionaries in “MY” denomination … then you’re certainly not really serving the Lord. And heaven forbid that we might let a nickel of our offerings leave “OUR” house of God without the Baptist / Methodist / Assembly / Lutheran / Whoever / Whatever name on it!

    I know one lady who, one year, was doing mission work that kept out of nearly 1/3 of the Sunday morning services. A very unwise ‘pastor’ prevented her from future service responsibilities (which he indicated she had performed very well even when she was not sitting in his services), because she was unfaithful.

    When a church feels that actively serving the Lord in winning souls for Him is “unfaithfulness”, it’s about time they just shut it down.

  17. Stu said

    First of all, it was not my intent to berate anyone. I’m excited about anybody doing ministry. The way I arrived at my conclusion was by reading the New Testament. In the time of the early church it was not under the accountability or authority of the early church.

  18. VideoBob2000 said

    Hey, Stu, speaking of the early church … Pastor David is currently teaching verse by verse, chapter by chapter through the book of Acts on Sunday mornings … a great way to learn about what the early church was doing well, and not so well. The teachings are also online for those who already have a loving, caring church home and are being fed well. OTOH, if you’re starving for real teaching of the word, come by and check it out!

  19. Joshua said

    As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord, Pastor David, right on man, praise be to God, and Ill see ya next sunday.

  20. too far Christian said

    Why is Calvary Chapel of the Triad built around one man?

    To say that Church membership on a role is not New Testament teaching, yet say that having one fulltime pastor, paying tithes, and using the sinners prayer/altar call is New Testament teaching is foolish.

    Do I believe in denominational Church membership on a role? Nope. Nor do I believe it is N.T. teaching to pay tithes, have altar calls, sinners prayers, or a church led by one man.

  21. calvarychapelwherethesheepliketoeat said

    not sure where ‘too far Christian’ gets their information but they are very mistaken. the church is not built around one man but there has to be a leader who leads us. Paul led the early church, Moses led in the OT, etc. etc. there are actually 5 full time pastors at calvary chapel of the triad. as a matter of fact they take turns teaching on sunday nights now. there are also elders and deacons as well as accountability to a regional pastor. does the Bible explicitly or by implication tell us what to exactly pray to get saved? It does give us the basics. Jesus died for our sins, we need forgiveness, we ask for forgiveness, we repent or tell God we are sorry, and ask Him to help us follow Him and live for Him. All included in this sinners prayer that Pastor David uses. Convenient on the tithing issue…so you probably give more than 10% right? really… you are wrong in what you say about the church and quite honestly your fruit stinketh. so we can see you do not tithe and i guess you have never led anyone at anytime in this deplorable and non scriptural sinners prayer but stand by and speak evil of a church that has seen hundreds of people saved, discipled and taught the Word of God. what a sad christian life…

  22. Umwhattosay said

    camments to – — calvarychapelwherethesheepliketoeat & too far Christian

    I attend Calvary Chapel and when the people know that the pastor is not there ( out of town or mission trip) people tend not to show up. The staff goes through great lengths to keep it quite b/c folks just want to see/ hear Pastor Mcgee speak, his teaching are not the only spirit filled teachings. Sad but true people focus on the wrong things. And unfortunately if this ticks you off and you attend there you need to reassess. And if I where to bring this up they would probably ostracize me.
    As you can see the thinking in this post even the name too of the above poster calvary chapel where sheep like to eat and even the comment Videooob2000 states– ” OTOH, if you’re starving for real teaching of the word, come by and check it out!” like everyone is is dishing out fake teaching not ” real ” teaching. I am dishearten too see this going on at this church. SADLY the majority are blinded by this!

    People can waste time tearing apart this or that. But the fact remains that Calvary Chapel of the Triad is not the one true church (there are are many other churches that follow Jesus , wholeheartedly) sometimes they ( Calvary chapel of the Triad) project themselves that way ( but of coarse many would deny it) and obviously disagree with this and start to call names and put down folks ( like the sad Christian life comment and fruit that stinketh comment).
    Big deal if they don’t do a membership if this is being used as some catalyst to show how special they are -it’s ridiculous! Being a member or nonmember does not get you closer to Christ.

  23. Anonymous said

    I would agree with the above, having attended that particular Calvary Chapel. The Moses model government assumes that the senior pastor is “appointed by God” and somehow has more authority than it’s Body! Deacons and Elders are servant leaders, all expressing different gifts, whether preaching, teaching or expressing their God given gifts. All believers are “appointed by God,” each equipped with different gifts by the same spirit. There is no accountability in a church where the “senior pastor” can fire his board members that are not local BTW (although he says this is to protect him), encourage folks to leave when they bring up questions or concerns, and indoctrinate it’s “laymen” to fear other churches and sacrifice the Biblical mandate to minister and teach their families due to being called immature if you do not “serve the building” 4 days a week. Just look at the Youth Group (check the parked cars for immorality that is overlooked.)
    Numerical growth does not equal spiritual growth. So many people have left that church, after maturing. The majority there are new believers earning to be yes men. This church has been saying one thing and doing another for years–it is very inconsistent.
    There is something fishy going on, something prideful and deceitful, but to quote Paul–even if the gospel is preached in vain, I rejoice.

  24. pastor david here. havent check this in a while. interesting postings.
    to number 20. calvary chapel is built on one man…Jesus. the God man. 21 really answered that.
    22. yeah it bums me out that people dont think they can receive from the others, we have some really anointed elders and assisting pastors there. i have thought it so the fear of being ostracized hopefully is an unfunded fear. i dont think we are the one true church. i have never said that. i do preach and teach against all the heresy, aberrations and unscriptural doctrinal statements out there that exists in other churches. let me point out that we accept people being baptized in other churches and places as legit, some denominations dont. the majority are blinded by what? the bible tells us that the day is coming where people will give out teaching to tickle ears. surely you know we are in those days and hopefully you do not doubt the Bible itself. the fact is calvary chapel is unique and it breaks my heart that it is rather than gives me pride.
    23. so is or is not the sr pastor appointed by God? i without apology believe God has called me to lead that flock. if you dont believe that you were right in leaving. dont be bitter or weird or hold onto bitterness it will hurt you and your spiritual life.i hope you find some one who is appointed by God. please let go of your bad feelings. the things you say just arent true.
    Eph 4:29
    29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
    NKJV
    Phil 4:8
    Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy — meditate on these things.
    NKJV
    if the majority there are new believers, praise the Lord for the fruit that He continues to grant us. Paul never said the gospel was preached in vain you are not quoting him or the Bible when you say that. the gospel has never been preached in vain. God’s Word will always accomplish that which it was sent forth to do. please let us not waste our precious time with these arguments but keep looking up and using the time wisely. if anyone wants to contact me or the other pastors please call or write us at the church. these anonymous postings are not really the way to discuss things are they???

  25. ken said

    I guess i am a yes man but only to JESUS CHRIST. I have learned more from Pastor David than any preacher or teacher, i went to a church that the only time you could be saved was in june at revival meeting, its quite refreshing to see a pastor give a alter call and lead you in a sinners prayer so you can become one of the saved. Also a great place to serve. GOD has given Pastor David a great desire to take the gospel to the world and i get to support that. WOW GOD is so kind to me. Your Friend in CHRIST

  26. Anonymous said

    nothing has changed with David McGee except he left Calvary Chapel to start his own branded ministry The Bridge, and Cross the Bridge…. Nothing has changed as he still keeps everything quiet, except now it will all come out into the light. Such distressing things being sad about him, and his leaders, so much that one of his pastors not only left the church, he left the state… He must have known something was coming…. So many people have left and are speaking up now, and the truth will come out.

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